GaryandAlice,
Thank you for your message - The IFR charts are a good product - no complains on that - I would only like a more transparent attitude from Jeppesen (see my long message above). In the worst case (i.e. we do not get any official written statement that allows us to share costs) I will still probably plan to go for it.
But, first (as a matter of principle) I want to see the license agreement terms - no way in EU you buy something and you discover only afterwards the condition of the purchase :)
Thanks! Teo
Dear TEO,
Thank you for publishing your exchanges with Jeppesen representatives.
It will be interesting indeed to continue witnessing here your progress (or, as is more likely in my opinion, the lack of it :) (:
I believe that the current "policy" of Jeppesen in relation to sharing a "single" e-subscription (among a small group of private pilots) can be described as a "don't tell, don't ask" policy. As we know such policies don't last forever ....
Please, keep us posted :)
Ok guys - I finally got the license agreement. Let me report here the full stuff and I will make my points in a second post.
A. License for Individual Use. Licensee may: (i) load the Software and Data on up to four (4) computers provided that the Software and Data (a) are not used in more than one ground-based computer simultaneously, (b) are not used in a ground-based computer and in an aircraft simultaneously, and (c) are not used in more than one aircraft simultaneously; (ii) physically transfer the Software and Data from one computer to another provided that the Software and Data are installed on no more than four (4) computers at any time; and (iii) print charts from its own licensed copy of the Software for use in the cockpit of one or more aircraft privately owned by Licensee provided that any printed charts are not used concurrently in any aircraft. Licensee may not print charts for any other use whatsoever, distribute charts to anyone except the pilots of the aircraft for which the Software and Data are currently being used, or copy or reproduce the printed charts for any purpose whatsoever.
(i) In the event the license is purchased in conjunction with a university or other educational institution with whom Jeppesen has a contract and Licensee receives a discount, Licensee may only load the Software and Data on one (1) computer, whether ground-based or in an aircraft.
B. License for Multi-Users. For each license purchased, Licensee may: (i) load the Software and Data on up to four (4) computers provided that the Software and Data (a) are not used on more than one ground-based computer simultaneously, (b) are not used in a ground-based computer and in an aircraft simultaneously, and (c) are not used in more than one aircraft simultaneously; (ii) physically transfer the Software and Data from one computer to another provided that the Software and Data are installed on no more than four (4) computers at any time; and (iii) print charts from its own licensed copy of the Software for use in the cockpit of aircraft privately owned by Licensee provided that any printed charts are not used concurrently in any aircraft. Licensee may not print charts for any other use whatsoever, distribute charts to anyone except the pilots of the aircraft for which the Software and Data are currently being used, or copy or reproduce the printed charts for any purpose whatsoever. In the event the Software and Data is installed in a network environment, the Software and Data may be installed on only one (1) ground-based computer and no more than four (4) computers in the same aircraft for each license purchased. In no event shall the number of licenses be less than the number of aircraft in Licenseeís fleet.
C. License for Use with Cockpit Panel Mounted Display Systems (the "System" or "Systems"). Licensee may only use JeppView in a single aircraft equipped with a System. Licensee may (i) load the Data on the Systems within a single aircraft; (ii) load the Software and Data on up to four (4) computers, provided that the Software and Data (a) are not used in more than one ground-based computer simultaneously, and (b) are not used in a ground-based computer and in an aircraft simultaneously; (iii) physically transfer the Software and Data from one ground-based computer to another, provided that the Software and Data are not loaded on more than four (4) ground-based computers at any one time; and (iv) print charts from its own licensed copy of the Software for use only in the cockpit of a single aircraft equipped with a System and for which JeppView is subscribed, and not for use in any other aircraft, and Licensee may not print charts for any other use whatsoever, distribute charts to anyone except the pilots of the single aircraft for which JeppView is subscribed, or copy or reproduce the printed charts for any purpose whatsoever.
Notwithstanding the foregoing, if the Software and Data are permanently installed on the hard disk or other storage device of a single ground-based computer (other than a network server which is strictly prohibited) that is used only by Licensee, then Licensee may also install the Software and Data on one additional ground-based computer, provided that there is no concurrent use of the Software and Data on both computers by any person for any reason whatsoever.
If the Software and Data under any of the above licenses are being used in Licenseeís flight operations department to support all aircraft for which a license has been purchased, Licensee may (i) use the Software and Data within its flight operations department simultaneously with use on Licenseeís aircraft containing the same or greater subscription coverage, and (ii) print charts from its licensed copy of the Software for use in an aircraft which has subscribed to the same or greater subscription coverage as that being printed..
Except for the initial loading of the Software and Data on a hard disk or for archival or backup purposes or as otherwise provided herein, Licensee shall not: (a) copy, reproduce, or publish the Software or Data; (b) electronically transfer the Software or Data to multiple computers over a network system; (c) distribute copies of the Software or Data or accompanying materials to others; (d) modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, or decompile the Software or Data or create derivative works based on the Software or Data; (e) modify, adapt, translate, or create derivative works based on the printed, electronic, or written materials; (f) assign, rent, lend, or sublease the Software or Data; (g) sell or transfer the Software or Data; (h) use the Software to print charts or other Data; (i) distribute charts or other Data printed from the Software to anyone whatsoever; or (j) copy, reproduce, or publish charts or other Data printed from the Software.
(see underlined references above). My interpretation is:
1) For Individual use license - they allow you to use 1 license for multiple (owned) airplanes BUT the agreement says: "not used in more than one aircraft simultaneously".
2) For Individual use license - they do not bind the license to a tail number (while they DO this for the Cockpit Panel Mounted Display Systems)
3) For Individual use license - Licensee may not distribute charts to anyone EXCEPT the pilots of the aircraft for which the Software and Data are currently being used;
This means that I can share the license with other 3 people, members of the same club, with the condition that not more than 1 airplane is using the license concurrently. I do not think this to be a HUGE limitation.
Any thoughts?
Of course if you believe to the customer representative, this is what they say:
On Mar 5, 2013, at 1:00 PM, FRA-Services wrote:
Good morning Sir
Yes of course. Please see attached.
Yes we should get all aircraft details from you so we can associate the service with the tail number. So this is also on the paper invoices for reference. Should you wish to by another service and then we know which service relates to which aircraft.
It’s up to yourself which devices the 4 installations are used. It’s just not allowed to share the license with other aircraft users. As per the license agreement.
Kind regards
So, clearly the person does not have a very clear idea of the license terms :) I will continue to bug them for a while.. :)
Enforcement is a different matter. It is clear on those terms that you are not allowed to share/sell the other keys. Indeed, you are only supposed to use them on one aircraft and shouldn't print other than for use in an aircraft which is in fact owned by you.
It is an individual licence Teo, you are not reading it right.
"you are only supposed to use them on one aircraft "
JasonC: where did you read that?
(Jason I guess you do not read carefully:
"Licensee may not distribute charts to anyone except the pilots of the aircraft for which the Software and Data are currently being used,"
so true it's an individual license, but you can still provide the service to other people :) )
This holds ONLY for the cockpit mounted panel (see terms above!)
Actually it says:
"are not used in more than one aircraft simultaneously"
so if you own more than 1 plane (like being part of a club for instance), you can use the e-charts in all the airplanes you own. And most important, if you have other people using the same planes (because maybe you decided to share the ownership), you can still provide the charts to all pilots flying the same planes you own (this for me is equivalent to share the key!), with the condition that it is not used in more than 1 concurrently.
so if you own more than 1 plane (like being part of a club for instance), you can use the e-charts in all the airplanes you own. And most important, if you have other people using the same planes (because maybe you decided to share the ownership), you can still provide the charts to all pilots flying the same planes you own (this for me is equivalent to share the key!), with the condition that it is not used in more than 1 concurrently.
My view (not a lawyer) is that the above is probably right, even if it is not what Jepp intended.
It has to be OK to use a single sub for N planes all owned by you.
It also has to be OK to use a single sub for 1 plane flown by any number of people.
I think Jepp's intention was to make a product which will be used with a single bizjet. A busy bizjet needs 3 or 4 pilots, hence the 4-license package.
Above the single-bizjet level, they have corporate deals so e.g. Continental Airlines will have a company-wide license, giving all pilots access to plates on a variety of platforms, plus a special website they can log into from anywhere and print off plates.
And all these people just pay the asking price whatever it is.
So Jepp are going to struggle with the GA market, especially as they have no way to sell a "downgraded" version for GA.
I am also not suprised that one can get some "interesting" response from one person at Jepp. Their "customer service" is legendary. But if you have got such a response, you are entitled to rely on it, and run with it. There is no way they could bust you for it.
Yes Teo you can use it more more than 1 aircraft (although only one at a time which is what I meant). And if their are other pilots on that aircraft they can also use it but the whole point of this thread is can I defray the cost by effectively selling the keys to friends. I think Peter has the right interpretation - it is meant for multi crew aircraft. Or where you have the sub and pay a pilot to fly your plane.
I am not saying that they will stop you doing it but the licence doesn't allow it IMHO.
I think, more to the point of this exercise, is that if Teo gets a written reply which allows him to do what he wants to do, which is to reduce his sub by 3/4, he can just quietly get on with it, and if Jepp don't like it they won't be able to stop him because they have already told him they are OK with it.
In the UK, and I would hope in every half civilised country, there is the concept of apparent authority. This means that if you get a reply from a company saying you can do XYZ then they cannot afterwards prosecute you for doing it. Well, they can but not right away; they have to give you reasonable notice etc.
The UK CAA has got its fingers burnt over apparent authority many times, because various less than clued up people inside the CAA have on occassions given permissions to do such and such. The CAA took the "offender" to court, only to see him pull out a letter from years before from somebody inside the CAA saying it was OK to do it. In most cases the CAA had no idea those letters were written. Such a prosecution would always collapse, although they would still stop the activity afterwards.
Teo doesn't even need to knock up a website. I think people will fall over themselves to get a 1/4 price Jeppview sub 
Peter I am sure you are right but my point is looking for salvation in the licence terms isn't the way to do it.
And it has nothing to do really with apparent authority, that is related to agents, just commercial practicality and reputation. If you call customer service and they say it is OK, they can still call you back and say the agent made a mistake. Of course if you keep it low key they almost certainly wouldn't.
