Well, after todays announcement I guess there is no more doubt what the next steps will be.
He has reckognized Donetsk and Lughansk as independent countries. It will only be a matter of short time that the respective leaders of those “countries” will ask Putin for help and ask them simply to walk in with their forces.
The much worse rethorik however is talking about Ukraine never having been a state in itś own right or never having managed to become a nation but having become a corrupt puppet of the US and Europe. This is basically an open justification for invading there and putting Ukraine “in order”.
I always thought of Putin as the poker player he used to be in the past, a brilliant mind often underesimated and consequently very dangerous to those who make that mistake. However, what happens now paints a different picture of the guy. Basically stating that Ukraine is NOT a nation but simply an area of corrupt rogues and oligarchs sponsored by the West comes down to a ballant “in your face” statement. To him, Ukraine is what Taiwan is to China, a rogue province which has to be brought back under control by him, right now.
It unfortunately appears as if the US intelligence specialists were correct in their assessment that the decision to invade has been taken. It is just a question when, not if.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
He has reckognized Donetsk and Lughansk as independent countries. It will only be a matter of short time that the respective leaders of those “countries” will ask Putin for help and ask them simply to walk in with their forces.
The Russian forces don’t even need to enter – they could send very modern hardware and train the locals, it can be done now “officially” the is provided to an independent state, not rebels. He has created a new Transnistria and Abkhazia, is effect.
arj1 wrote:
The Russian forces don’t even need to enter – they could send very modern hardware and train the locals, it can be done now “officially” the is provided to an independent state, not rebels. He has created a new Transnistria and Abkhazia, is effect.
Putin just ordered Russian forces into these areas.
He just sent a “peace keeping force” there. So technically the invasion of Ukraine is a fact
If he just invades these two, the West will do nothing. Maybe some half baked sanctions, with his big gas buyers doing nothing.
Quite a cunning plan really, with plenty of precedent since WW2…
The only way forward is to go flat out for nuclear power, but that’s politically impossible in most of the mainland. So Europe will just screw itself.
Peter wrote:
The only way forward is to go flat out for nuclear power, but that’s politically impossible in most of the mainland. So Europe will just screw itself.
If by most of mainland Europe you mean Germany, possibly. Not the position of the French people or the government as an example of why that isn’t entirely true. And in that vain, do you think the Islands are better? Do you think you could get a new nuclear reactor approved in the UK, despite it’s dependency on power imports? Or Ireland? Norway?
Edited for a few more facts… This is the current situation wrt Nuclear power plants at the moment. France is about 40% of all the Nuclear power (plants) a Sweden produces more nuclear power than the entire UK! Ukraine, not unimportant in terms of overall output. Another reason (natural resources being the obvious one) why Putin will want to get his hands on Ukraine.
In terms of electricity generated by nuclear energy in 2019 France holds the top position with a share of 70.6% followed by the Ukraine and Slovakia, both with 53.9%, then Hungary with 49.2%.
https://www.euronuclear.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/ENS_Glossary_Reactors.png
Peter wrote:
If he just invades these two, the West will do nothing. Maybe some half baked sanctions, with his big gas buyers doing nothing.
I think you are right. There were threats about “previously unspeakable sanction” being imposed if he invaded. Now he has. Not the whole country but an area. The west always knew this was a possibility (very similar to his invasion of Crimea).
But this morning the EU is saying it’s not the right moment for sanctions. If not now, then when? He’s invaded Ukraine. We told him there would be consequences. Why the invasion isn’t big enough for consequences?
My home is heated by gas. A reasonable proportion of my electricity is produced from gas. If the EU refused to take gas from Russia, no doubt I’d have a cold house and power cuts at times. But I’d be prepared to put up with a cold house and power cuts to help the Ukrainian people keep their freedom. It’s a small price to pay compared to the price some of our ancestors paid for our freedom. Especially considering as we move into spring heating and a/c wouldn’t be needed for much of Europe.
The west drew a line in the sand and now Russia has crossed it. All we promised was sanctions…..no military action. And we don’t seem even prepared to do the sanctions now.
… and then it lists a bunch of countries with the UK missing 
Actually yes I know France has already done it correctly. The UK, politically, could go nuclear much more, and this is a good moment to go ahead because the green lobby hasn’t got a leg to stand on (there are much bigger fish to fry, and one should never waste a good crisis; even the Oxford Arts dropouts graduates who make up the upper echelons of political life here know that), but for some dumb reason the UK prefers to go for joint ventures with the devil (China), and overseas energy companies (EDF) who won’t touch it with a bargepole unless the UK taxpayer gives them a guaranteed price! At the same time they spend the cost of several plants on CV19 related IT projects which are somewhat less than effective.
Sanctions have just been announced, thankfully.
Yes; Germany is highly relevant in this picture, as the one country in a position to impose meaningful sanctions on Russia. The UK can’t do a lot more than financial sanctions on the gangsters who run the place while buying up football clubs over here
Peter wrote:
… and then it lists a bunch of countries with the UK missing
I think that’s my mistake in transferring the table to the PDF, when I copied UK was in there.. The link does show the UK…
