Peter wrote:
This is wonderful
I believe that this post, even though it mentions Fraport, it is OFF TOPIC in this forum which is for General Aviation and aviating.
Its purely a politician’s political opinion from a politician that has a very specific agenda and whoever researches a bit on him they will understand what he stands for.
Its better to stay out of politics when we discuss Aviation, our passion.
I could have downloaded the mpeg and edited it to show just the bit where he says that Greece was forced to give the airports to Fraport (IOW it wasn’t done because the Greeks cannot run a runway and a building with a coffee bar and 3 policemen to check your passport) but I don’t have the time 
Of course every ex politician is busy with self justification of past actions I thought this guy was suitably amusing, which is quite a novelty.
I can confirm that all the organisational and financial might of Fraport, backed by Europe’s largest economy, is not yet able to deliver toilet paper to the public toilets at Kos LGKO
The old terminal entrance, which could have been used for GA
Sadly I didn’t manage to meet up with @Medflyer, but he sold his plane some years ago.
petakas wrote:
I believe that this post, even though it mentions Fraport, it is OFF TOPIC in this forum which is for General Aviation and aviating.
It’s certainly border line but as it refers to the Fraport take over, it is not entirely off topic for the forum, even though it may be for the thread.
petakas wrote:
Its better to stay out of politics when we discuss Aviation, our passion.
Can it be helped? Whom are we all fighting when it comes to the hassles which make our common passion become more and more restricted, priced out and made impossible to enjoy? That is right: politicians and their very often insanely corrupt politics.
My friend, if you allow me to call you thus, for all the years I’ve known your name and what you do for Greek GA, you have been the one which jumps into my mind FIRST if I am asked about people who really make a difference for GA. Your work for AOPA and your dedication to the cause of keeping GA alive in your country against odds, where the usual guys would have long given up, is exemplary for any one. In fact, many of your AOPA colleagues in fellow countries sections should be looking at your example and bow their heads in shame. Trust me, I hold you in the highest regard possible.
But who have you been fighting in the end, when it comes to actually trying to just get your airports and infrastructure to accept GA in an affordable way? Whom but not politicians and their dirty agendas, whom but not local “officials” who are much more attached to the office they hold than to the people they serve? How do those guys get away by being Schengen AND custom union members but still forcing every single airplane onto a customs airport against clear EU law? Who is behind the latent waste of infrastructure imposed by people who are unwilling to keep that infastructure within acceptable opening hours, who is behind claming “no parking available” when airports have huge emtpy tarmacs but won’t find space for a single Cessna?
That’s right. Politics.
And the disease has spread. It’s no longer “only” Fraport in Greece, it is now also Croatia, AENA in Spain and so on.
Politics.
You can’t live with them, but you also can’t live without them.
Peter wrote:
IOW it wasn’t done because the Greeks cannot run a runway and a building with a coffee bar and 3 policemen to check your passport
It was done because those tourist airports create massive revenue. Instead of for Greece, now for Fraport. If I am not mistaken, the same kind of thing happened to their harbours too.
I got f****d over by Fraport a couple of years ago – the report is somewhere. Anyway, these things happen once and then you move on. Except in my case, I never do – anyway, in my dealings with a related company, I’ve managed to repay the favour, only about a thousand fold. No gain for me at all, except a very, very, very big smile. I can now move on.
Interesting report in the latest AOPA Greece newsletter about the value of an AOPA card (and knowing how to use it)!
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2. An example of the privileges enjoyed by members of AOPA Hellas
May 25, 2023
Another case highlighting the benefits and discounts enjoyed by members of AOPA Hellas is in relation to the handling costs at regional airports in Greece.
For more information, please visit: https://bit.ly/3ql7h37
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Translation of the linked article:
An example of the privileges that AOPA Hellas members are entitled to
Another case that highlights the benefits and discounts that AOPA Hellas members enjoy in relation to the cost of handling at Greece’s regional airports.
On 9 May 2023, an AOPA Hellas member without using the discount to which he is entitled, sent – out of curiosity – a request for PPR and HANDLING at Paros airport to a “new” ground handling company that he identified from the relevant NOTAM of Paros. The cost for the pilot and two passengers without the use of an AOPA Hellas membership card, amounted to a high three-digit number.
However, an AOPA Hellas member pilot, who is informed about airport procedures, and has the possibility to prepay fees via e-banking, will be asked to pay only 45,93€.
How is this done?
On 15 May, our same member, flew from Megara to Paros with a friend on board having submitted GEN DEC & Form731. He informed the Paros tower by email PNR (not PPR) as per relevant NOTAM so as not to be charged for the service by the Handler. He also informed that he is an AOPA Hellas card holder and that he does not wish to be transported by bus within the circuit. He also made sure to prepay the TEEA and disabled fees by e-banking from his mobile phone before departure and also sent the deposit slips by email to avoid the Handler’s “disbursement fee” charges again.
In the end, the amount he paid was 45,93€, broken down into 30€ Handling by Goldair – without using the Bus Track, 13€ TEEA fee and 1,30€ Disabled fee, 1,63€ TFA (Airport User Fee).
Conclusion:
Pilot with AOPA Hellas Valid Card with prepayment and pre-booking: 45,93€
Pilot without AOPA Hellas Valid Card and asking a non-contracted Handler to take care of all procedures: 538€
Difference: 492,07€
Translated with DeepL (https://www.deepl.com/app/?utm_source=ios&utm_medium=app&utm_campaign=share-translation
The EU Commission’s latest July infringements package just dropped: https://ec.europa.eu/commission/presscorner/detail/en/inf_23_3445
From there:
Civil aviation safety: Commission calls on GREECE to comply with EU rules on air operations and aerodromes…
In addition, 10 aerodromes have been identified by HCAA and EASA as not correctly certified in conformity with Regulation (EU) 2018/1139. Greece could also not provide evidence that in four military operated aerodromes, which are open to public use, a required level of safety and interoperability with civil systems has been achieved. The Commission is therefore sending a letter of formal notice to Greece, which now has two months to respond and address the shortcomings raised by the Commission. Otherwise, the Commission may decide to issue a reasoned opinion.
I hope this doesn’t spell more trouble for GA accessibility in Greece. Sounds like they could scapegoat the EU for whatever they wanted to do to address their non-conformity issues.
@petakas @atmilatos may know more.
Rwy20 wrote:
I hope this doesn’t spell more trouble for GA accessibility in Greece.
No it will not … more than the trouble it already has.
The main issue with GA accessibility in Greece is the lack of established parking space(s) for GA.
Most airports, be it public(CAA) of Privatized (Fraport), have no more than 1~3 GA parking spots.
In summer periods, parking at Greece’s aprons has an extreme peak in demand, way beyond their capacity.
Destinations which have some 2~3 spare spaces for light GA parking are:
Astypalaia LGPL
Epitalio ZZZZ (NW Peloponnese)
Ioannina LGIO [Has AVGAS, useful Port of Entry and cheaper in Handling costs with AOPA Card]
Kalymnos LGKY
Kythira LGKC
Leros LGLE
Megara LGMG (Athens’ GA airfield – Has AVGAS)
Naxos LGNX
Paros LGPA
Syros LGSO (Has AVGAS)
All other Fraported Airports are accessible and a bit more expensive in handling BUT they allow parking on first come fist served basis and there is a tricky process where you can apply for PPR only 3 days before the planned arrival and this is a a hit or miss.
I know pilots who stayed up late night to send the PPR request on the calendar date change at 00:01 (Greece time) just to have a better chance to get a spot since they would be 1st come 1st served once the slot opened.
Last but not least, there is the Mykonos LGMK case for Summer period with the one and only example of “I’ll do what I want because I can”:
Only for summer, I apply an obscene (4figure) amount of non avoidable airport lounge use charge so that I get rid of light GA requests once and for all since the “high end” clients won’t bother with the charge. How do I do this ?
I specify that all Private Flights passengers embark/disembark only via the “GA/BA Lounge”.
I do not publish it anywhere like here
https://www.fraport-greece.com/eng/our-expertise-and-services/aviation/airport-charges.
… but I give this instruction to the handling agent who passes the bad news to the GA pilot.
Even though I have my official Airport Charges published and they look sensible, I make sure the HANDLING AGENT passes the message to the GA pilot
(you know the illiterate one who did not bother to ask for details and a proforma invoice)
that … hmmm you know… when you will arrive and depart *you can only pass via the GA/BA lounge.*
Yeah, says the pilot and what does this mean ?
Well its 2.000€ per use of the lounge, 2 for the arrival, 2 for the departure process, replies the handler.
That’s how you get rid of the GA hassle especially at this airport and you do not publish it anywhere, the Handler does the dirty job for you.
Off course, once the Boys of Summer leave, normality prevails again (from October to April)
petakas wrote:
Yeah, says the pilot and what does this mean ?
Well its 2.000€ per use of the lounge, 2 for the arrival, 2 for the departure process, replies the handler.That’s how you get rid of the GA hassle especially at this airport and you do not publish it anywhere, the Handler does the dirty job for you.
What about the jet customers? Do they pay the same amount? Even for them it sound ridiculous.
