Fly to ski

But better check NOTAM, AIP SUP and possibly even AICs for Sion…

I can’t see Grenoble Le Versoud / LFLG anywhere in this thread and wondering why; if I was flying from the west, this would be my first choice:
1) hard rwy
2) no parking or ppr restrictions, but uncertain hangarage
3) ample nearby slopes
4) reasonable rates and cheapest fuel I have seen in the last two years anywhere in Europe
5) nice local club people
6) good “adiabatically heated”* alpine valley, which offers fair VMC conditions when other places are hardcore IMC (similar to Samedan)
7) flying to alternate (LFLS) would still allow for reasonable access to the originally booked hotel

* adiabatic heating is my personal explanation of the effect; will be happy to hear the views of others, who may understand WHY is this valley effect occuring in places like Samedan or Le Versoud

Probably two main reasons:

1) it is LF.. as opposed to LS..
2) unlike the mentioned LS.. airports, no decent public transport will take you anywhere from Le Versoud (much less to a ski resort)…

Rwy20 wrote:

Rwy20 23-Nov-15 14:14 #44
Peter wrote:
what is the cheapest noncorrosive fluid that dissolves frost and ice?
Maybe this?

Actually I bought two bottles of that stuff last winter when I was stupid enough not to put the wing covers on and unforecasted snow fell after it rained then froze.

Wing covers work great but you need 2 people if the wind is really blowing. The other thing is you need (or I need) electric for my Engine heater. In the US its common in Europe not common at all. Of course there are exceptions, when you walk into the parking area you will see cars plugged in.

But hey, did they pay a landing fee? A handling fee? A parking fee? A passenger Tax? Normally its for employees or vehicles the airport owns. They can think of themselves but not for the customers they are there to service. Of course the exception is Augsburg.

Sorry another tangent. Need more

I looked at Innsbruck last year and decided that it might be challenging in IFR and ice with some pretty steep climb gradients as well as high MEAs. I think Salzburg is the way to go or land in Augsburg. Augsburg has electric for preheat. Not sure about Salzburg but one can hope.

I would do what Alexis recommended a day trip provided the weather is VFR. My limited observations so far has been if you have a stable High pressure over Germany or the Alps you will get low clouds with tops about 2-3000’ high. It usually becomes partly cloudy by 1PM then when the sun sets its overcast again. Those systems last for a long time till a front moves them out. Correct me if Im wrong and I might be, since Ive only had 2 years experience here in Europe.

Centurion_Flyer wrote:

Centurion_Flyer 23-Nov-15 21:47 #55
I can’t see Grenoble Le Versoud / LFLG anywhere in this thread and wondering why; if I was flying from the west, this would be my first choice:
1) hard rwy
2) no parking or ppr restrictions, but uncertain hangarage
3) ample nearby slopes
4) reasonable rates and cheapest fuel I have seen in the last two years anywhere in Europe
5) nice local club people
6) good “adiabatically heated”* alpine valley, which offers fair VMC conditions when other places are hardcore IMC (similar to Samedan)
7) flying to alternate (LFLS) would still allow for reasonable access to the originally booked hotel

adiabatic heating is my personal explanation of the effect; will be happy to hear the views of others, who may understand WHY is this valley e

Looked great till I saw it was VFR only. What happens if its IFR for a few days and it snows will they clear the runway? Some airports will wait till the weather system passes that could be a week.

I wonder why a nice airport like that has no IA Procedure? GPS approach are relatively cheap.

Peter wrote:

I was going to look at St Johann after someone mentioned it but it’s obviously useless except as a lunch stop.

Why would Sankt Johann be useless?

BTW I have just heard from a very experienced GA+bizjet pilot that perhaps the only Austrian hard runway which allows overnight parking, and is near ski locations, is Zell am See. When I was there, there were ski lifts everywhere.

Let me join in as an Austrian. Zell am See (LOWZ) is indeed the best recommendation, because you can literally walk from the field to nearest ski station and there is plenty of parking. The one skiing area that is closest (Schmittenhöhe) also has a fair share of beginner slopes. Niederöblarn (LOGO) und Hohenems (LOIH) also have ample parking, but require a few minutes in a taxi or a rental car to get to the next ski station. St. Johann (LOIJ) is a bit limited in parking capacity, but there should not be any problem when arriving with a single (or possibly even 2 or 3) aircraft.

Sankt Johann has parking and they are rather flexible stacking aircraft. There are a lot of aircraft in winter. I never got refused, sometimes it’s a “we’ll figure it out when you come” but I assume you want it 4 weeks in advance notarized with apostille

The VFR airports do not have official weather and no ATC. Only in very extreme circumstances, they will exercise their landowner privileges and prevent you from taking off. What you do see in Austria is that they closely watch any non OE-reg plane, based on the experience that pilots without mountain experience can do very stupid things.

Both fog and a solid cloud cover would keep you grounded at IFR airports in the Alps because of icing. I don’t think it adds much to have an IAP. I would not do a scheduled ski holiday by airplane, that has a very high likelihood of not working out, I would wait for the stable HPA we usually get during winter and use that timeslot. Works for me every year.

C210_Flyer wrote:

I would do what Alexis recommended a day trip provided the weather is VFR

I would not underestimate the element of fatigue.

For me, both flying and skiing are demanding activities. I’m usually dead tired and hungry like hell after a day of either. While I’d imagine Peter being more relaxed about flying due more experience, he stated specifically he is a beginner at skiing. I’m not sure piloting an aircraft home is a good idea at the end of a physically demanding skiing day.

The more relaxed you are with both, the more feasible those things get, obviously.

Having said all that, if there IS a sudden window of fair weather for a trip like this to, say, Zell am See, if we made this a little spontaneous euroga wintersports fly-in, I would be up for it!