Wingly story is well sorted, there was a legal battle as well but the court asked DGAC to pay 500E for the said pilot nd he is free to take pax for more than 40km A to B on cost-share…I think FAA/AC took on the platform as well
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/ceta/id/CETATEXT000034993714/
Things like Bluewings/BigBlank are really different kettle of fish, the link to AOC operators like AirFrance/KLM is even way mis-leading…still, the only legal tools now are the scrutiny on “other stuff” and it’s easy to find plenty of dirt under the rug as these operations are likely to be “cowboy” (e.g. short runways, lack of authorizations, busting minima, funky maintenance…)
I landed with a friend a Toussus, we get greeted on arrival by 6 people, apparently not us but we were told they were waiting for “some visitor CJ” 
Airborne_Again wrote:
In what sense?
Getting fined for not having a paper map? or printed flight plan? if they ever ask you while waiting for biggest fish to fry
Ibra wrote:
Getting fined for not having a paper map? or printed flight plan? if they ever ask you while waiting for biggest fish to fry
None of these are illegal….
I was referring to the what usually happens when a body criticises the police or safety and regulatory services of not doing enough. They tend to ho overboard the other way.
Not carrying a paper map is not illegal. This was confirmed last week when at our club and some of the others in the area, an FI/ FEs are demonstrating what they accept in EFBs. In particular they were running through SDVFR and its capabilites. It is all you need, these days to satisfy the French examiners. I have seen SDVFR before but never used it. I was surprised and impressed how good it is and how everything links together so well. What is even better, besides being free, it links in with SkyDemon.
I’m still working on that one. So much to learn for an IT dinosaur 😁
If this help here is an old ramp check list
Wingly story is well sorted, there was a legal battle as well but the court asked DGAC to pay 500E for the said pilot nd he is free to take pax for more than 40km A to B on cost-share
What happened in France? €500 for what?
DGAC banned A to B Wingly flights as they were restricted to 40km A to A and max 30min, someone who used to do a lot of flights (IFR Paris-Cannes) took it to the court and win his case, he got paid 500€ cheque by the state
https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/ceta/id/CETATEXT000034993714/
Here is the French national law on “cost-sharing”, the extra “conditions” seems sensible to me (e.g. 200h, VMC…) but as far as the law as tested on a court, it’s void !
I think that is the key thing here, issuing two bills and two contracts (vs issuing one bill and one contact), you could argue it’s just the format but it makes a huge difference to roles & responsibilities and compliance
I doubt it. Will try and find a professional legal answer and report back.
Snoopy wrote:
I doubt it. Will try and find a professional legal answer and report back.
Ha! Just one?! :)
Yes, Renting a plane is possible. As it has been said here in some posts, it’s the way most corporate flights happen.
Keys:
- Company/individual A rents the a/c to company individual B.
-B can do with the a/c whatever he/she wants. Even put at his yard for decorating.
-A stated in the contract the a/c is fully serviceable, it includes insurance, etc…and if B wishes to fly, the pilot must be a CPL, with 1000h, 50h on class, etc…
-B hires a freelance pilot (the pilot must be registered as freelance) that complies this requirements and pays him to fly the a/c.
-There are two separate bills. One for the rental, one for the “piloting” services.
Commercial operation’ means any operation of an aircraft, in return for remuneration or other valuable consideration, which is available to the public or, when not made available to the public, which is performed under a contract between an operator and a customer, where the latter has no control over the operator.
Isn’t renting out an airplane for profit commercial?
Commercial air transport’ means an aircraft operation to transport passengers, cargo or mail for remuneration or other valuable consideration.
Isn’t pax with a rented aircraft paying a pilot to be flown „aircraft operation for remuneration“?
Snoopy wrote:
Isn’t pax with a rented aircraft paying a pilot to be flown „aircraft operation for remuneration“?
IMHO this depends on who actually is the operator. Flip this around and consider the following. e.g. Big Airways rents a 737 for a day or a week or even one flight form Acme leasing company (normally the operator). Big Airways even get contract crew from an agency, because their aircrew are on strike…
Is Acme leasing the operator the one that needs the AOC or the agency or even the pilot operating through a limited company? No. Big Airways would clearly be the operator.
