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Anyone fancy a trip to Nuremberg EDDN? (and charter / CPL / AOC / etc discussion)

I think the French case study that Ibra quoted was very different to the PA46 at Courchevel flight.
Chronologically, EASA approved Wingly type flights. Eg people could go on an internet site, find a pilot/plane/destination/trip.
The pilot could be PPL and the plane could be rented from a club or wherever.
There was already cost sharing allowed between say three pilots wanting to go somewhere. Sharing the costs equally was quite legal (at least in France)
There was also a legally accepted way in which a club could offer local flights to the public (although advertising was not approved). These were baptêmes de l’air which were renamed by EASA (I think) vols de découverte. From baptism to discovery.
Wingly brought advertising onto the scene and the possibility of people going further afield and even A-B.
Both the FFA and DGAC were against this introduction without certain safeguards. They really were not against going further afield or sharing costs equally, as had already been done in the past. But in their opinion strangers going on line, booking a pilot, experience unseen, aircraft unseen, insurance unseen, and with costs not being shared equally was an anathema to them.
After much discussion between FFA/DGAC and Wingly they came up with a set of guidelines which suited all parties and he Wingly concept was accepted in France. One of the most significant sections of this was that anyone arranging pilot and plane through Wingly should be made fully aware that this was not a commercial flight and carried none of the safeguards which are associated with a CAT flight.
The court case Ibra refers to IIUC occurred during the time when EASA had agreed that Wingly flights were legal and the time when the DGAC agreed they could be carried out in France under the agreed guidelines.


Indeed, as I pointed earlier that there is 1/ cost-sharing in DR400 via Wingly and 2/ getting CPL and renting PA46 via BlueWings

For 1/ there is court case and it’s pretty much closed as you said between EASA, DGAC, FAA, Wingly

For 2/ this has not been tested in courts yet (but load of aircraft & crew that are running these operations are grounded on other legal matters)

The OP did talk about 1/ & 2/

Last Edited by Ibra at 18 Feb 09:19
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Snoopy wrote:

Isn’t renting out an airplane for profit commercial?

It’s a commercial business, but it doesn’t make the flight commercial. If it did then you would need a CPL to rent an aircraft from a profit-making enterprise such as a commercial flight school. That is obviously not the case.

Last Edited by Airborne_Again at 18 Feb 10:08
ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Snoopy wrote:

I doubt it. Will try and find a professional legal answer and report back.

I would be interested in a legal answer, this is how most TBM/PC12 with ATPL/CPL operate
Specifically, curious for N-reg as they are legally owned by trusts

Last Edited by Ibra at 18 Feb 10:15
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Although this thread is about several topics, since it has Nuremberg EDDN in its title, I decided to point out how great this place is as a destination for fly-in for those who like hard runways with instrument approach, no PPR and customs/immigration readily available at the airport. The city itself is really beautiful, vibrant and full of life. We were lucky to arrive on Saturday with dozens of summer events happening all around the city. I guess fly-in would be similar to what we had in Dresden few years ago.

The airport itself is super friendly and everything is readily available – fuel truck was there in 5 min, passport check was done in 5 min (arriving from UK), registering at GAT another 5 min (first arrival to EDDN you have to present aircraft documents). We were on our way to the city literarily 25 min upon landing with aircraft secured and refueled. Total price for landing, handling and a day of parking (DA42, MTOM 1785 kg) with VAT included was €70. Fuel prices are like in rest of Germany (and majority of Europe) – €2.50 for liter of Jet A1 (all taxes included) but it is what it is.

In my recent trip to EDDN I briefly described the airport experience.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

More importantly, did Fred make it to Nuremberg?

EGTF, United Kingdom

Indochine wrote:

More importantly, did Fred make it to Nuremberg?

He just left the discussion and let the usual suspects to discuss all possible aspect and consequences of his trip

And he probably left the forum for good because those were his only posts.

Last Edited by Emir at 24 Jul 11:42
LDZA LDVA, Croatia
87 Posts
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