Hola,
My phylosophical take to preserve GA access for the future:
Ibiza island has no alternative GA access to LEIB other than a helo direct to your finca, so it is good to keep it feasible.
AENA are simply overwhelmed with the amount of traffic in summer. If light GA is an additional hassle to them guess what they will prioritize, and, human nature added to local culture, they will hit the weakest link when changing their procedures to make their life easier. This is what happened at LEPA where light GA traffic is since a decade ago practically banned unless you are willing to part company with one of the AMU’s in your wallet. Hence when I go to LEIB I try to be as little hassle and friendly to them as I can.
IFR is a hassle because, unless you are familiar with the AENA-tailored IATA SSIM format, which will need some skilful manual editing vs the Autorouter – volunteered slot request message, it will need a cumbersome and time consuming interaction with the AENA personnel (since the automated system will not process your request unless the format matches to the coma). This hassle, whether you eventually give up or continue interacting until you get it right, which may be OK in winter, combined with the afore-referred human nature + summer traffic and workload on the part of AENA personnel, could lead to Ibiza adopting the widespread practice to forbid direct slot requests and make it mandatory to pay 100EUR for a handler to do it for you. This is thus something to be avoided.
I second the take to go VFR (Z/Y), which is what I do when I go there in summer. If you are worried about departure, just file your IFR pickup point at EPAMA ( or GALAT or ESPOR ) at the border of the Palma TMA and upon request you will reasonably quickly get a clearance enroute there. You will usually be able to fly VFR over the sea at 3500ft before changing IFR so not too low level.
OTOH, AENA personnel, in summer, could not care less about your messages to Iberia, just adding to their workload with no benefit. This, in the past, led to the handling mafia making life practically impossible at LEPA unless you pay. Do we want that at LEIB?
Iberia are also very busy in summer, but if you are patient, you may be lucky and get reasonable service. In the past they always rejected my pre-populated GENDEC and request that we manually fill-in their Ibiza-specific form. I believe I shared it in the past herein.
If you want to ensure good service, then you need to contract with one of the GA handlers which, I was not aware but someone reported above, no longer make it mandatory to go via the VIP terminal, which saves you $$$ , and may fix it all (perhaps including your slot request in proper IATA format) for 100EUR + AENA fees. Of course if you deal with them and mention the Iberia price you will only be encouraging the LEPA-like mafia abuse.
All quite common sense if you know the background, so just supplying a bit of the latter for your own judgement.
We can all together help maintain GA access at special places.
Y-FPL works near in Spain, weather is usually VMC and the “visual approach” saves from burning 100€ Avgas on 20dme procedural arcs or managing IFR arrival slots…the en-route portion under Eurocontrol IFR is bonus as it some hassle on transits, notams validation but VFR also works neat when V-FPL is stamped in the ARO
The only time I felt I need to fly an IFR approach in Spain was at night as flying NVFR seems prohibited (“what one ATC told me in the air”, apparently only restricted the ground in most AENA airports with time tables 
)
Peter wrote:
A number of us did that on the Andorra meet-up in October last year. No problem.
Emir wrote:
It’s PPR (I think 24 hours) but I don’t see that as a big problem. You’ll know a day or two before the trip if you’re flying or not because you’ll have pretty much precise weather forecast at that time.
Beziers is no problem with sufficient IFR reserves. If the wind is strong enough, and highly unlikely in late Summer then I won’t do LEIB direct. Beziers is a Ryanair airport for Paris is it not? 
I’ll try plan to arrive before or after them so I can clear customs.
Antonio wrote:
Hola,My phylosophical take to preserve GA access for the future:
Ibiza island has no alternative GA access to LEIB other than a helo direct to your finca, so it is good to keep it feasible.
AENA are simply overwhelmed with the amount of traffic in summer. If light GA is an additional hassle to them guess what they will prioritize, and, human nature added to local culture, they will hit the weakest link when changing their procedures to make their life easier. This is what happened at LEPA where light GA traffic is since a decade ago practically banned unless you are willing to part company with one of the AMU’s in your wallet. Hence when I go to LEIB I try to be as little hassle and friendly to them as I can.
IFR is a hassle because, unless you are familiar with the AENA-tailored IATA SSIM format, which will need some skilful manual editing vs the Autorouter – volunteered slot request message, it will need a cumbersome and time consuming interaction with the AENA personnel (since the automated system will not process your request unless the format matches to the coma). This hassle, whether you eventually give up or continue interacting until you get it right, which may be OK in winter, combined with the afore-referred human nature + summer traffic and workload on the part of AENA personnel, could lead to Ibiza adopting the widespread practice to forbid direct slot requests and make it mandatory to pay 100EUR for a handler to do it for you. This is thus something to be avoided.
I second the take to go VFR (Z/Y), which is what I do when I go there in summer. If you are worried about departure, just file your IFR pickup point at EPAMA ( or GALAT or ESPOR ) at the border of the Palma TMA and upon request you will reasonably quickly get a clearance enroute there. You will usually be able to fly VFR over the sea at 3500ft before changing IFR so not too low level.
OTOH, AENA personnel, in summer, could not care less about your messages to Iberia, just adding to their workload with no benefit. This, in the past, led to the handling mafia making life practically impossible at LEPA unless you pay. Do we want that at LEIB?
Iberia are also very busy in summer, but if you are patient, you may be lucky and get reasonable service. In the past they always rejected my pre-populated GENDEC and request that we manually fill-in their Ibiza-specific form. I believe I shared it in the past herein.
If you want to ensure good service, then you need to contract with one of the GA handlers which, I was not aware but someone reported above, no longer make it mandatory to go via the VIP terminal, which saves you $$$ , and may fix it all (perhaps including your slot request in proper IATA format) for 100EUR + AENA fees. Of course if you deal with them and mention the Iberia price you will only be encouraging the LEPA-like mafia abuse.
All quite common sense if you know the background, so just supplying a bit of the latter for your own judgement.
We can all together help maintain GA access at special places.
Ibra wrote:
Y-FPL works near in Spain, weather is usually VMC and the “visual approach” saves from burning 100€ Avgas on 20dme procedural arcs or managing IFR arrival slots…the en-route portion under Eurocontrol IFR is bonus as it some hassle on transits, notams validation but VFR also works neat when V-FPL is stamped in the AROThe only time I felt I need to fly an IFR approach in Spain was at night as flying NVFR seems prohibited (“what one ATC told me in the air”, apparently only restricted the ground in most AENA airports with time tables )
All copied, so how do I notify Iberia that I am coming or there? Just ring them when I am ready to picked up? I am not really a fan of VFR abroad unless I am 100% comfortable with the routing and the airspace. This requires a fair bit of study no? I just find IFR so simple and easy.
AENA have been extremely helpful via emails, so don’t think it’s much of a hindrance. My only main concern is getting to/from the aircraft at a busy intl airport.
What makes LEPA so expensive? The fact it’s in the same category as Madrid/Barcelona? Or the handlers?
I am not really a fan of VFR abroad unless I am 100% comfortable with the routing and the airspace. This requires a fair bit of study no? I just find IFR so simple and easy.
Only for the last 10nm approach portion
You file IFR on Y-FPL with IFR/VFR transition at IAF of your STAR or IA]
I doubt you have “routing & airspace” between Approach & Tower in while on IAP approach? or inside CTR with runway in-sight? remember ILS/LPV are not even listed on your filed ICAO IFR FPL irrespective if it’s India or Yankee, it looks the same after IAF…but you are likely to be in Alpha in some CTA/TMA places in Spain at 5nm around aerodromes, bizzarly Spanish ATC don’t care if you want to swap VFR or cancel IFR there, even AutoRouter does not care if you transit IFR/VFR in Alpha !
PS: I don’t know what is difficult about touring VFR in France & Spain? (as long as you have good weather and plenty of time to plan it) but “à chacun son goût”
I don’t know what is difficult about touring VFR in France & Spain?
Last year when returning from EuroGA Andorra fly-in my Y FPL was mistakenly converted to V by LESU tower instead of just allowing me VFR departure. From that moment no ATC on the route to Croatia was aware of my flight plan including Spanish ATC. I got initial climb to FL160 then Barcelona asked me to descend to FL130, followed by several altitude changes in France and few vectorings around some airspaces. Luckily, Italy was easy and regardless complicated airspace, I got pretty much direct routing at FL120.
That is a bit different than “planned VFR”? while ago Dutch ATC cancelled my IFR over North Sea (that India flight plan should not validate at FL60 but it magically did, only god knows why), I end up flying on my own south of Schipol until Teugue, it was more difficult than the same flight being well “planned” for VFR
@pilotrobbie flies his DA40 in UK under London TMA, he should have grown enough tick skin to improvise with IFR/VFR and learned to deal with airspace? nothing come closer in terms of difficulties to his flying around M25 (especially in bumpy IMC without flight plan while fiddling with frequencies and avoiding airspace), I bet he can easily manage Spain & France under VFR without messing up
Obviously, southern France & east of Spain are “tougher” than Croatia when it comes to VFR
IME, Spain works fine for IFR, as one would expect.
As per many reports over many years, the main issue is ATC ELP which has got a lot better in Spain but is generally even worse than France Well, like in France, they speak it OK (although generally without the looooong drawn-out accent in France, so it is legible) but the said ATCO may not actually understand anything other than completely standard phrases.
VFR is VFR, everywhere. The usual traps, like VRPs.
Ibra wrote:
@pilotrobbie flies his DA40 in UK under London TMA, he should have grown enough tick skin to improvise with IFR/VFR and learned to deal with airspace? nothing come closer in terms of difficulties to his flying around M25 (especially in bumpy IMC without flight plan while fiddling with frequencies and avoiding airspace), I bet he can easily manage Spain & France under VFR without messing upObviously, southern France & east of Spain are “tougher” than Croatia when it comes to VFR
I’ve flown around the M25 for over 12 years, and began to loathe it. I now do not fly VFR if one can help it, except for take-off and landing into Stapleford. I much prefer the safety, and the convenience of IFR that it brings. It was also very simple on my visit to Girona which I am currently making a write up for, extremely simple.
Ibiza is a very busy airspace and if I can get a SLOT, I would be happy. But if not I’ll take the VFR alternative, that’s if it’s simple and easy.
Peter wrote:
IME, Spain works fine for IFR, as one would expect.As per many reports over many years, the main issue is ATC ELP which has got a lot better in Spain but is generally even worse than France Well, like in France, they speak it OK (although generally without the looooong drawn-out accent in France, so it is legible) but the said ATCO may not actually understand anything other than completely standard phrases.
VFR is VFR, everywhere. The usual traps, like VRPs.
I noted that on the way out of Girona when asking for weather avoidance due to the DA40s that had landed through the TCU saying it was horrific. ATC didn’t get the pre-note, but I think Barcelona Radar did. Anyway digressing, I do think if things are simple, French and Spanish ATC has a better service but the UK is easier for us because of ELP.
pilotrobbie wrote:
French and Spanish ATC has a better service but the UK is easier for us because of ELP.
Where do you get that idea? French ATC is OK, but Spanish have been terrible at times. Impossible to get directs or short cuts in flight. And once on departure from Malaga I was vectored straight into a mountain, or would have been had I not been VERY insistent.
So this trip is all set for Thursday, after the last few years of wanting to get there. If the weather is completely unflyable, I’ve got an airline seat reserved both ways but will no show for that if my flight goes ahead.
I’ve planned two routes down to LFMU and currently only one seems to be flyable for the route back from Beziers, the rest have a weird route in Autorouter. Then it’s the hop to Ibiza; which seems sensible via POS and over top of PMI.
The route back via EPAMA then does some yo-yo type route around Barcelona, but hopefully I get vectored south of the airfield and towards Girona and up into Beziers.
