Snoopy wrote:
Sneak in a basic 4 seater SEP with the house purchase, no one will notice ;)
Best. Advice. Ever !!
Well I do know someone who bought his BMW that way!
Problem came he could not get his payments on time and the value of his place was below the loan and he ended up losing his house and still owing more than his BMW had cost…
RobertL18C wrote:
Seneca 1 is a good basic MEP. Better useful load than a V and by MEP standards easy to maintain.Honest 145 KTAS at 18 usgph.
18 GPH sounds like a lot but then again, how much will one of those Saratogas use per hour? Also around 14-16 GPH? Puts it into perspective I guess.
And how much is a total overhaul of the IO540/550 size engines as compared to a simple IO360?
I know someone who flies a Twin Comanche and he sais his maintenance cost is about the same as it used to be on the C210 he used to own.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
18 GPH sounds like a lot but then again, how much will one of those Saratogas use per hour? Also around 14-16 GPH? Puts it into perspective I guess.
It comes with a price tag if you want 6 POB plus baggage.
C210 and Twin Comanche are no “6 POB plus baggage” planes. Already doe to space limitation, regardless the payload.
The Saratoga will use as much (or as little) fuel as your understanding of the engine allows.
I have a II HP (normally aspirated). FL90, 7 on board (5 humans + dog + cat), 145-150KTAS @ 10.5 USG/h
(The POH says something very different. Whoever wrote it must have something against LOP)
hammer wrote:
145-150KTAS @ 10.5 USG/h
Wow! That is quite an efficient number indeed! I have not tried such a low power setting on our 210 but at low altitude that FF gives us 110KIAS. Our slow cruise would be more like 14-15GPH which, at FL90 would be perhaps around 170KTAS. We would have to fly FL200 to get close to that efficiency. My impression is however that the cabin is more ample in Saratoga than a 210 due, in part, to the club seating. Do you have that experience?
145-150KTAS @ 10.5 USG/h
That is what a TB20 does ~FL100.
UdoR wrote:
C210 and Twin Comanche are no “6 POB plus baggage” planes. Already doe to space limitation, regardless the payload.
I dont know about the Twinco, but on our 210 we do indeed carry 6POB plus bags. Ours is a ‘P with a bulkhead separating the main cabin from the baggage compartment, which is worse, but non ’P’ 210’s have a single contiguous area cabin+baggage which gives even more amplitude.
Then there’s 6POB and 6POB’s:
Last weekend my 11YO daughter was shown into my friend’s King Air E90 and she was initially impressed by the sheer size of the aircraft on t he outside. When she got in, however she said: “but dad, this only carries six POB like us!” I pointed out the additional potty seat and the sideways seat at the back and she said, “but that’s for luggage, otherwise, where else will you carry all the stuff we put in Maria Centurion” (our 210)
So, effectively, and i n a sense, a much larger 6POB aircraft…
Bottom line is there are shades of grey.
I have carried 6 adults in the 210 on a few occasions (maybe once a year) but it is not practical on a routine basis unless for short flights. Weight is never a problem unless you want to fly quite far.
The limitations are:
-Entering the two rearmost seats is adamant to entering the pilot’s seat on a PA46
-Height restriction on the rear seats is 1.8m max.
-You cannot have six tall adults as you will run out of legroom: the front and middle row slide fwd+aft to adjust legroom on all rows but three persons >1.8m height will be tight one behind the other. There is more legroom than it seems at first sight since, unlike other GA types, the space under the front and middle seats partially counts as foot-room, airline style.
For 6 adults those limitations make it practical only if mixing large + small people.
IN our case typically three couples can be quite comfortable for up to two hours (perhaps more but I have not tried) , when you can adjust seat pitch distribution to ensure everyone has comfortable legroom.
More typically, when carrying two or more kids (which is the OP scenario) , 6POB is absolutely no problem. I have routinely done that for up to 4-hr flights and the real limit making the difference vs the E90 is the potty.
In other words, for a 210:
6 Norsk Vikings : NONO
6 male+female couples :YES, verified up to 2 hrs
6 mediterranean male adults : YES, verified up to 2 hrs
4 adults plus 2 kids : YESYES, almost unlimited
Graphically:
P210
T/210, with free access to bag space behind rear row
In all cases, a more spartan interior than a Saratoga or PA46 , although a lot of 210’s have renewed leather seats and sidewalls. Space for rear pax (used with more than four POB) is worse than PA-46, but access for pilots is way easier in 210.
OTOH, with only 4 POB, on the 210, the middle seats can be slid all the way back leaving very ample legroom for the tallest Norsk Viking. We also sometimes remove one middle seat for extra room in the cabin. 5POB gives lots of options.
Antonio wrote:
I dont know about the Twinco
Comanche / TwinCo do not have any baggage compartment. It is either (removable) seats in third row OR baggage. It is like the image of the P210, but no baggage behind that.
Antonio wrote:
with only 4 POB, on the 210, the middle seats can be slid all the way back
That is the same in the Comanche, and indeed is very convenient. As the third row is removable, you can in fact go all the way back with the seat to the rear wall.
I might have posted this before, but as further graphical visualization of “family space in a 210” this is an example from a Christmas trip a few years back
Together with the loadsheet for that particular flight with 6 hrs worth of fuel with 90 kg to spare for kid’s future growth
