Peter wrote:
have the old saying: the man hopes the woman will not change, but she does, and the woman hopes the man will change, but he doesn’t.
Just came across that. How very true 
Jujupilote wrote:
Getting married, raising kids, staying married is a life well lived.
Maybe, but there is more to it than simply staying together. I think well adjusted kids come from happy homes.
Happy comes from parents who have fulfilled lives and are doing what makes them happy. Not just sticking together as a family, but following their interest outside the home too.
If flying makes you happy, then you bring that happiness home with you, and your kids benefit too by having happy parents.
Likewise if sailing, football, hiking, skiing makes you happy, you should find a way to enjoy it. Parents who are miserable because they feel they are missing out, will struggle to make their home a happy place.
I think most of family versus flying discussion boils down to money and time, with kids definitely one gets less of both and they have to adjust but there are some opportunities: 1/ I usually fly 1h30 (or drive 5h) my noisy 3 years old kid to stay with his grandparents for one week and 2/ I fly with other pilots and my kids and sometimes with our kids, Mrs seems happy with that setup: she can do other stuff with her life while I can do mine…
From time to time, I book one of those cheapest RyanAir weekend flights (6am Saturday and 7pm Sunday) to one of those destinations in southern Europe…these trips help appreciating SEP family flights, they also tighten bolts regrading useful load, travel organization, hassle factor tolerances and serve as budget benchmark
dublinpilot wrote:
Parents who are miserable because they feel they are missing out, will struggle to make their home a happy place.
But they’ll probably continue to post in pilot’s forums to explain to everyone else what a happy life should consist of in order to find a justification to themselves for being unable to combine kids and flying (which so many people are perfectly capable of). Or not being confident enough to not let their partners decide what they should or should not do in their lifes…
Frans wrote:
And as I’ve seen so far, kids and aviation can work together, at least if you really want to.
The kids themselves would love to come fly. They are usually not let out of over-protection.
This has been done many times. Whenever I have someone ask me about airplane ownership or learning to fly is, did you ask your wife, does she approve. If not, wasted money. The only problem is: Many women totally change character with motherhood. I know many who used to love to fly, motorbike, ski, dive, did not have a problem with the partner being away for a day or two. After birth of the first kid (and if it’s an only kid amplified) crash stop. Everything is too dangerous and every time you leave the house you feel guilty. Often enough you even get encouragement but can see that it’s causing mental anguish. So at some place you simply stop doing things completely.
Frans wrote:
But as long as a human is able to live his or her dreams, one should do so.
I honestly think dreams are what makes more people unhappy and depressed than those who stand on their two legs and see their lives realistically. Particularly if you reach a certain age and see that the dreams are that, imaginations which will not come true. Some people call that mid-life crisis, because that is when people realize that no, they are not gonna get that life they dreamt of. For prospective airline pilots, that realisation comes as early as 35. A bit like women who realize at 40 that they lost the chance of having children.
Ambition is ok, but it should be confronted with reality on a daily basis and there needs to be a plan B, C, D, E, F. In the end, not many folks who look back at 60 will have fathomed that their lifes would be as they turned out to be. And most stuff we dreamed about at 20 are today a totally different affair which many times I’d say I would not even want to be a part of anymore. Airline flying being one of those things.
I have long decided to give up dreaming in favor of achievable experiences. Travel, see things, show kids the world (if let) but primarily make sure your kid has everything it needs, which is mostly time.
Frans wrote:
But then again, there is always a kind of solution. Searching new friends or nannies, moving close to family or old friends, applying for another (less time-consuming) job etc.
It’s always funny how “solutions” come from people who are not in that situation.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I also agree, even if the “well lived” line could be seen as a bit condescending to people who haven’t succeeded with those three things.
Today there are many who don’t want that anymore. But it doesn’t matter. The main thing is, that you can look back on your life and be satisfied what you achieved. Not like those poor old codgers who are totally disgruntled with everything around them and end up filling newspaper comments with their spite because they regret almost every decision they made, often not recognizing that where they are now is a consequence of these decisions and blaming everyone else for their misery.
Personally it makes me sad how many of my friends in my age are exactly at that point, kids or not and I am certainly happy to have a 6 year old which challenges me every day and makes my life better. And while my life was nothing of the sort I expected or dreamt of, I can say I am pretty happy with where I am today, even if aviation takes less and less of importance.
Frans wrote:
I’m actually a bit depressed by some reactions here. As if it’s normal that a wife or husband can force you to stop one of your favorite hobbies, in this case flying. Maybe it’s because I’m a younger generation as most here, but I think this is an outdated model in the modern world.
Sorry to say @Frans but once children are in the world things are changing. Priorities will change. The amount of free time will decrease by about 99.999 %. If the spouse (he/she/it) is not into flying before the kid(s), flying will most probably be no part of the life with kids.
I’ve been into this world since I was born and I know of so many cases where this is the case. It’s just pointless if your flying time is weighed against all the other free time. And it’s expensive. Kids are expensive – it’s not the things to buy, it’s the missing income due to the kids.
The best investment is to make the kids love flying.
@Peter Yes a nanny is a help. We have an aupair girl at home. However you have to live with it that it’s not you that’s passing on “the life’s values” to the kids, but another person. Any decision is a trade, sometimes even like gambling, in this part of life. But yes, without her we would not be able to do what we do. And I would definitely not be taking IR lessons at the moment.
And by the way: A spouse that’s not into flying might be catched if you use flying as a means of transportation. I’d never say “why don’t we go flying for an hour or two?” That’s just boring for most people not being the pilot. But if I say “why don’t we take a weekend in the alps / at the sea?” no one would seriously ask if we go by car…
UdoR wrote:
That’s just boring for most people not being the pilot. But if I say “why don’t we take a weekend in the alps / at the sea?” no one would seriously ask if we go by car…
I actually have a different experience. Either women like flying (or quickly start to like it), or they don’t. If they don’t, there is no difference between a round trip and flying to Venice. If they like it, it never gets old. And of course, flying to a nice location instead of taking the car is a big plus.
I’d never try to persuade her to go flying if she’s not really comfortable with it. Just the same as I’d never accept her trying to stop me from doing it.
Having a partner who likes flying makes things much easier, of course ;-)
Interesting to see the number of posts with the concept “WIFE Control is not allowing pilot to fly”.
Are these pilots in any way telling their wife things they for some reason no longer should do?
About taking a long break away from flying – just tell the wife about the training cost getting the license back after 10 years compared to maintaining it.
Michael_J wrote:
Interesting to see the number of posts with the concept “WIFE Control is not allowing pilot to fly”.
Are these pilots in any way telling their wife things they for some reason no longer should do?
I guess it all has to do with that irrational feeling that flying is potentially “unsafe”. My wife had the same reaction when I told her that I wanted to buy a motorcycle after more than 10 years non-riding. My daughter just had turned two years old. I barely could end my pitch for the bike – the tears were already running down her cheeks…
So I consented to not having the bike and told her that instead I would like to get a pilots license instead – my childhood dream. To my surprise she agreed…
That day I was lucky but still I agree to what others have written: having kids changes the perspective on a lot of things. So in the end I think you can’t blame mothers for their feelings even if they seem to be irrational.
I too have restraints in time and money available for flying. So I try to keep up my proficiency with occasional glider towing and sometimes paradropping which is both cost-effective and gives a lot of experience per time used. Then once or twice per year a trip with the family to some attractive location. Last year we took a trip to an airfileld with a wakeboarding facility just next to it – family loved it…
Supersonic wrote:
So I try to keep up my proficiency with occasional glider towing…
That’s actually the one thing in flying I wouldn’t do if I had a two year old daughter. Your life entirely depends on somebody else, at least during the first stage of flight.
Last year we took a trip to an airfileld with a wakeboarding facility just next to it – family loved it…
Let me guess: The infamous airfield of Thannhausen? ;-)
