Here is an exemption published by the Swedish CAA a few days ago:
In Poland we have a funny situation regarding PBN in GA. Pilot can get PBN approval during IR revalidation, but not based on his declaration of operating PBN in the past. ULC obliged examiners to require a written statement from pilot’s employer (aircraft operator) confirming that they have been flying using PBN. Here’s the letter. [ local copy ] So all pro pilots got PBN by experience, while private pilots having no employer need to take a full course. Meanwhile the ULC hasn’t approved training programs for Polish ATOs, so GA pilots can’t do a course even if they would like to.
I’m still a bit confused about all this stuff. I passed the RNAV theory one cycle before PBN questions were asked, so I think I have to do a half day course at the local ATO to make up for that.
I’m also currently doing IR flight training. Should the PBN training be wrapped up in that course and examined in the IR skills test, or is it done separately? My intuition is that every IR skills test from 08.2018 onward should include PBN.
zuutroy wrote:
My intuition is that every IR skills test from 08.2018 onward should include PBN.
Well, my understanding is that IR candidates are well advised to get a PBN-compliant skill test. However, if I recall correctly, it will become formally mandatory only from August 2020.
Two questions on this topic (maybe I missed if someone already provided the answers):
1. Where (in which personal document) PBN will be officially recorded? E.g. in license, like kind of rating or somewhere else?
2. What happens if I fly PBN approach and I don’t have this training/sign off? I’ve been capable for doing this for years and suddenly I’m not from August 22 (or whatever date)?
Apparently you are no longer capable of doing that, or flying class A……..total carp
Unless of course you have dispensation, as have some of my ex-colleagues,which is then ok!
I checked Croatian CAA ruling on this and it’s basically: if you fly PBN approaches, you have to have it signed off in pilot’s logbook by examiner; if you don’t fly them currently, you’ll have to obtain the signature by 2020; you can get signature on any flight with examiner (PC included) where you’ll fly PBN approach and prior to flight you have to demonstrate theoretical knowledge of PBN; no ground training is required.
yep, that’s OK, it’s just that there aren’t very many of them in the UK…but you have to fly one on your IR reval to fly class A?? WTF!
PeteD wrote:
or flying class A
While it may be the effect, that is not the actual regulation, which does not refer to classes of airspace.
It is PBN routes you cannot fly. Most (all?) airways in Europe are RNAV 5 routes and many SIDs and STARs are RNAV 1 (though there are still some conventional ones.)
This means that you can, for example, drop parachutes in Class A airspace, and you could, technically, take directs from waypoint to waypoint or radar vectors in Class A and still be legal, but you cannot fly a route.
And the ruling about PBN routes applies across all controlled airspace (ie E-A).
After August 25 2020 it will be the case that Class A will require a PBN sign off, because you need an IR and IRs will all have to be endorsed PBN, and that will be true of any IFR in any class of airspace outside the UK. In the UK, unless things change with the BIR, you will be able to fly IFR in Classes E-B using an IR(R) or IMCR.
So, let’s not exacerbate an already confusing picture, by bringing airspace class into this. It is almost irrelevant.
Bottom line, until I can arrange for a flight with IRE at an airfield with PBN app(which as already agreed by CAA are few and far in the uk, compared to ILS, due to their lack of progress) I cannot fly class A despite having been doing it for the last 30 years.
That’s not irrelevant to me!
