Temporary Schengen "suspension" around Europe

Flyer59 wrote:

Samos is too far for any non-stop flight, even from Southern Germany, except you want to fly over open waters with little fuel (I don’t).

From Munich I would consider Samos or even Heraklion great destinations if you can top off with cheap fuel in Belgrade or Skopje. Friend of mine did that a week ago, went with an Arrow III from Austria to SKP and SMI, back the next day. With the fuel prices in Belgrade, I’d consider that a trip worth considering. BEG-SMI are 550 NM, to Heraklion the distance is 620 NM.

A suspension of Schengen would cause major hassles all over. Schengen is about immigration only, so customs are not an issue.

First of all, most small airfields in the Schengen area have no more immigration facilities. That would mean, all traffic between the now Schengen states would have to go via dedicated airports of entry who today are capable of non-schengen traffic. There are not many GA fields which are.

For the airlines, it would be a disaster of epic proportions. Large areas of airports today are declared Schengen areas, where immediately border controls would have to be re-established. Many airports have spent literally millions to convert their infrastructure to assure the Schengen/non Schengen separation and are no longer able to handle traffic on a non Schengen basis that easily.

Apart, I wonder how many countries would be able to man all their closed down border posts again after their massive RIF’s in the border police personel.

I think this is a actionism by the EU lead by the French right now and hope it won’t go that far. If it does, GA will be the least consideration to the regulators and probably be left standing in the rain until the major troubles are sorted out.

But one thing I am quite sure of: IF Schengen is suspended, it won’t come back in a hurry. Schengen / Dublin are cornerstones for a borderless Europe, if Schengen now fails, it will probably be for good. The psychological impact of that would be massive within the EU.

@ MooneyDriver

I have flown to Heraklion three times, but always through Corfu

What form to use for flights to France ? [I understand they have bogged down on Schengen for now?]

I am looking for the correct form to send to the “Douane” as prior notice.

Where can I find it? Normally Rotterdam-Annemasse is offcourse within Schengen and thus not a problem?

I’ve never seen a form for France. I’ve always sent an email/fax (which ever is appropriate) giving details of the aircraft, crew and passengers. I suspect that very little detail is required, but I tend to give as much as possible, on the basis that if I miss something that they need, then they are more likely to turn up to get it ;)

No-one has done anything to Schengen. It’s perfectly okay to perform border checks on a temporary basis within the context of Schengen. You do not need to send anything to Douane because customs (movement of goods) is not affected by what has not been done to Schengen (movement of people).

For your route, I can see only one NOTAM that is of relevance in this context and it only applies to airline carriers.

F2239/15 (Issued for LFBB LFFF LFRR LFEE LFMM) – ACCORDING TO FRENCH DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR INSTRUCTION,
IT IS COMPULSORY FOR AIRLINE CARRIERS INBOUND FLIGHTS TO HOMELAND
FRANCE TO CHECK AND BE SURE, IN COMPLIANCE WITH FOLLOWING
ARTICLES :
-ICAO ANNEX 9 ARTICLE 3.33 OF ANNEX 9,
-ARTICLE 26 OF SCHENGEN CONVENTION (1985 JUNE 14TH)
-ARTICLE L.625.1 OF ‘CODE DE L’ENTREE ET DU SEJOUR DES
ETRANGERS ET DU DROIT D’ASILE’ CESEDA (REF CODE ABOUT FOREIGNERS
ENTRY CONDITIONS AND RIGHT OF SANCTUARY),
EVERY PASSENGER DOCUMENT FOR EVERY INBOUND FLIGHT TO HOMELAND FRANCE,
COMING FROM INSIDE/OUTSIDE SCHENGEN AREA, WITHIN FOLLOWING PERIOD :
DEC 11TH TO FEB 26TH 2016.
TRESPASSING THOSE ARTICLES COULD LEAD TO PAY A MAXIMUM 5000 EUROS
FINE PER PASSENGER AND TO PAY THE COSTS OF CARE AND CONVEYANCE
FOR EVERY NOT ALLOWED TRAVELLER. 15 DEC 17:39 2015 UNTIL 26 FEB 23:59 2016.
CREATED: 15 DEC 17:39 2015

Mmm ..

I read somewhere that the French had suspended schengen for ga flights and you had to send a priornotice way in advance. Apparently this would be for a period of at least 3 months.

The same post also said that it was not notammed but the french apparently found that it had been widely publicised enough.

I called Annemasse airport and they confirmed you needed to send a full document with all details including pax etc.. They were supposed to send me the documnt but that did not come through. So instead I used a document I found on their site (which seems very simplistic) .. And I send the icao gendec.

It does seem very strange.. But I prefer not to take any risks.

Schengen makes life so much easier….

Commander wrote:

I read somewhere that the French had suspended schengen for ga flights and you had to send a priornotice way in advance. Apparently this would be for a period of at least 3 months.

Interesting!

Commander wrote:

The same post also said that it was not notammed but the french apparently found that it had been widely publicised enough.

Even more interesting. And curious – I should like to think that the conflicts in Syria, Lybia, Ukraine had been publicised widely enough, but I read a NOTAM that warns me of entering such airspace for any flight I plan in Germany. So random.

Good luck with your flight and happy to hear any feedback on what paperwork was actually needed!

I was told that as in the US “ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking the law” that “bit of logic is applied world wide”. So taking it to a higher cerebral level of Govt thinking why on earth would they need to tell you they changed the rules while you slept? Especially in notam form whose only function is to keep pilots informed about their specific activities.