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Limoges LFBL and Dijon LFSD - more Schengen defying PN on international flights - is France doing another Schengen suspension?

A4232/22 NOTAMR A2580/22
Q) LFBB/QFAAP/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4552N00111E005
A) LFBL B) 2209110706 C) 2212122359
E) NON SCHEDULED INTERNATIONAL FLIGHTS :
24HR PPR UPON AD ADMINISTRATION : POSTE.TRAFIC(AT)LIMOGES.CCI.FR
CREATED: 11 Sep 2022 07:06:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

C3350/21 NOTAMN
Q) LFEE/QFZXX/IV/NBO/A /000/999/4716N00506E005
A) LFSD B) 2201010000 C) 2212312359
E) FOR ALL FLIGHTS INSIDE AND OUTSIDE SCHENGEN : CUSTOMS MANDATORY
TO OPERATIONS.DIJON(AT)EDEIS.COM
CREATED: 27 Dec 2021 08:53:00
SOURCE: EUECYIYN

This is like La Rochelle LFBH which no longer notams it; it has been passed into the AIP

Schengen suspension

There are probably more but there is no easy way to search the AIP for phrases.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Relevant newspaper article

Strangely I couldn’t find an official French source in an english google search, at least not within the minute I tried…

Low-hours pilot
EDVM Hildesheim, Germany

AFAIK, every year since 2017, is there something new? it gets renewed every 6 months in France from 30/04/20xx- 30/10/20xx and 01/11/20xx 30/04/20xx

No idea when airport notams gets renewed? Dijon & Limoges have always required 24h PN by NOTAMS in the past years for any international flight (I think someone paid 1500€ when he landed between the week when that notams was not renewed in Dijon)

Maybe there is something going on this time but it has been the case for 8 years now…let’s discuss this again in 30/4/2023 ?

Few Schengen countries renewed CV19 with war in Ukraine

SBC suspensions

Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

May not be news to you, but it probably is news to others, and I have not found you posting this useful info on the La Rochelle thread which is instead stuffed with off topic quotes from all kinds of obscure sources.

What I find interesting is the wider political angle: is why France is implementing this, specifically at these airports. Of course anybody who actually knows is not going to be posting it…

Each little thing like this is another nail in the coffin of using GA for going places. PN here (no sign of police; just a waste of time), PN there (no sign of police; just a waste of time), PN over there (no sign of police; just a waste of time).

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

There are load of POE airports in France that require PN even intra-Schengen: the majority have this info in AIP (e.g. LaRochelle, Picardie…), some in NOTAMS (e.g. Auxerre, LaRochelle, Limoges, Dijon…) and many others in on some mayor notice board (e.g. Châteauroux, Tours, Avignon…)

I think I have posted this many times, I got caught without PN landing in Tours from Spain…I now send PN systematically to these big places intra-Schengen (or fly to small places where PN is not required: FPL is enough and no one is around)

Last Edited by Ibra at 24 Nov 23:07
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

and many others in on some mayor notice board (e.g. Châteauroux, Tours, Avignon…)

Looking up Avignon LFMV, nothing in notams and nothing in the AIP

Where is this published?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Surely, it’s on some notice board somewhere (in Tours it’s mayor decision), I never understood why they don’t clarify or publish in AIP & NOTAMS like LaRochelle does and get on with it? worth checking directly with Avignon airport, I am sure they will confirm 24h PN in AIP is for all international flights

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Nov 08:22
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

That’s quite a step – an implicit requirement to email every French airport before an intra-schengen flight there.

They often don’t reply – as we found out when doing the LECD fly-in recently (eventually cancelled due to wx). Out of several airports in the SW corner (LFMU, LFMP, LFMT, etc) only 1 or 2 replied.

A phone call is a problem because you have no hard evidence.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

That’s quite a step – an implicit requirement to email every French airport before an intra-schengen flight there.

Basically it suspends as well Schengen as well as EU customs union with that PPR requirement.

Would be interesting to know which French airports are still AoE without PPR. Or doesn’t that exist anymore?

And what happens in case of a diversion? 1500€ every time you land somewhere you did not ask for PPR? That would pretty much scratch France as a cross-border destination.

Ibra wrote:

or fly to small places where PN is not required: FPL is enough and no one is around)

Which places are that? And what is the logic behind that? Either you need Police and customs everywhere or the PN at the AoE’s are pure red tape.

LSZH, Switzerland

You can fly Dreux-Kortrijk with flight plan (the law says it’s ok even during Schengen suspension)

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/article_jo/JORFARTI000035871851

It’s hard to explain why lot of POE need PN/PPR while small non POE don’t? if anyone has an explanation, I am happy to take it?

If big airports wants PN/PPR, why not put it in AIP/NOTAMS just like LaRochelle does it?

And what happens in case of a diversion? 1500€ every time you land somewhere you did not ask for PPR? That would pretty much scratch France as a cross-border destination.

Not an issue as far as I am aware, the law clearly says it’s ok even extra-Schengen

https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/jorf/article_jo/JORFARTI000035871850

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Nov 10:16
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
18 Posts
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