Speaking of Schengen freedom of movement, there is an end of this Greek nonsense in sight: it looks like Bulgaria and Romania are finally getting their Schengen membership reasonably soon (within a year or two). When they do, Greece will become part of a geographically contiguous Schengen space and maintaining the internal borders permanently (at opposed to an emergency temporary measure) will be against the regulations.
@Mooney_Driver
“There is NO reason I can think of other than laziness. "
Laziness,inefficiency,slow-static administration,fear of loss of power,fear of improvisation,arrogance,internal confrontation are byproducts of State ,employing politicaly affiliate persons OR efficient people succumbing to all of the ABOVE of their bosses.
I would like to post a General Comment after reading some posts in this thread.
I would recommend to posters to avoid generalizing comments on people and nations.
The fact that FRAPORT is a German company it does not mean that there is something against German people. Words like “German foot to kick out the laziness” I find them unacceptable. This is a General Aviation forum not a European politics forum. The relations and attitude of people visiting Greece from Germany with people in Greece is nothing but best. Germans for sure are reading this forum and if I were one I would be offended by reading some of the comments posted here. Its not fair.
The way this thread is going it looks like we are beating Germans (in general) for what they have imposed in Greece. Don’t let this thread go this way. Politics, monetary funds, banks, the 1940’s and other things stink. People don’t. Lets not mix these things please.
Ultranomad wrote:
Speaking of Schengen freedom of movement, there is an end of this Greek nonsense in sight: it looks like Bulgaria and Romania are finally getting their Schengen membership reasonably soon (within a year or two). When they do, Greece will become part of a geographically contiguous Schengen space and maintaining the internal borders permanently (at opposed to an emergency temporary measure) will be against the regulations.
Contrary to general belief it is not SCHENGEN that is not implemented in Greece. Its the national customs regulation that – in a ridiculous way – obliges the vehicle of transport (not the occupants) to pass via an International Airport when entering/exiting Greece.
All is explained in www.aopa.gr/Info paragraph 13.
AOPA Hellas are still (2018) trying with Ministries involved to relax this measure. They are facing the hardest of deep state immobility on such “hot” subjects.
It is “hot” because as you know thousands of Immigrants and Refugees are trying to move daily in to Europe via Europe’s southeastern border, Greece waters, with any possible vehicle available.
When you think of this situation do not think only of the usual poor homeless person profile.
There are families amongst them that carry serious cash to push their way northwest.
There could not be a worse moment to ask to relax such customs rules for General Aviation in Greece especially for outbound flights to Europe…
This is probably a big point, about Greece not having any Schengen neighbours, currently. The requirement to use a port of entry for any vehicle means the only way to operate the Schengen concession in/out of Greece is by swimming between Corfu and Italy 
I think the immigration situation will ease as soon as N Europe decides to stop accepting the inflow. Then, every potential traveller will see the news on their Iphone and will stay in Turkey.
atmilatos wrote:
With FRA from 1 April 2018:
- Parking fees: 3000E/year.
Where did the 3000/year come from ?
It is
10 euro Χ tonnage Χ 364 days + VAT no ?
What am I missing ?
Hello petakas,
it is far from my intention to insult anyone. But I have a big problem with the fact that infrastructure like airports are operated in such a wasteful manner such as having opening hours just around the daily ATR flight from Athens or the likes. The fact that 14 of Greece’s largest infrastructure assets have now been sold to a foreign company in order to finally make them profitable does not shine a good light onto the capability of the Greek state to do this themselfs.
When I hear from people who have flown there that the “closed” airports still are manned with ATC and police all day but still don’t accept any traffic outside these ridiculous opening hours, things get even more bizzare.
You mention yourself that
They are facing the hardest of deep state immobility on such “hot” subjects.
Deep state immobility has caused the fact that some of their infrastructure now is force-managed by other countries companies. Deep state immobility certainly is also one explanation why valuable infrastructure is operated in a way which make every business manager with only minor education in efficiency and economics wet their pants. Who would keep open their shop, their restaurant, their road network only for 2 hours a day? And why?
True the refugee crisis is a massive problem but as far as GA traffic is concerned it is used as a lame excuse. GA usually comes from the North, not the South and as free VFR flying without a flightplan does not exist there, they should have a pretty good idea where the planes come from. Immigration control and customs is not high science, it requires one or two persons which can even be summoned from the local harbour office with 30 minutes pre-notice an who in this day and age can connect to their Schengen database via smartphone or tablett virtually anywhere with 3G coverage.
All this is a question of willingness to provide a service or not. And it appears to me that this will is not there. This is in dramatic contrast to anything I have seen in your tourist industry and the friendliness and hospitality one sees there. It is a state problem which goes back way too long and which is also known in other places like “increadible India” and places like that, where bureaucracy is celebrated with relish.
Well, for a country which needs every Euro they can get to get their economy going, that is not good enough. To defend this looks a bit like Stockhom syndrome to me.
AOPA Greece do a fantastic job in the circumstances and they are commended for not having given up and emigrated elsewhere despite the problems they face. But the underlying reasons for all this goes much deeper and it will need a massive effort to streamline and change the bureaucracy and power of local bureaucrat-kings to something alike customer orientation. That is an attitude thing and bureaucrats are some of the most stubborn people in the world regarding that.
It may well be necessary for EASA and whoever else is in the position to knock some sense into those responsible as I don’t see change coming from within that bureaucracy. Even though, seeing how Bulgaria has changed, there might be hope for Greece as well.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
When I hear from people who have flown there that the “closed” airports still are manned with ATC and police all day but still don’t accept any traffic outside these ridiculous opening hours, things get even more bizzare.
This is not true, your information is wrong. Maybe your informers confuse the fact that some personnel in some airports are there some (short) time before official opening hours. In worst cases they turn up right at opening time but have to do runway inspections etc. which pushes the actual first possible landing time some 10~20’ later ( @Peter I know, don’t comment on that!)
That is (unfortunately) the very reason of (limited) opening hours. Lots of personnel get payed “per hour” along with a low basic salary I believe, hence there is a budget reduction for CAA, Police, Fire service or other authorities with total neglect that this is infrastructure that should be available all day regardless of the scheduled airline flight(s) of the day.
To all the rest you post above I agree.
petakas wrote:
What am I missing ?
There is separate winter/summer charge.
atmilatos wrote:
There is separate winter/summer charge.
Ahh you’re right, 10/day in summer, 1.08/day in winter.
