Jeppesen approach plates vs AIP plates

That’s horrible. Who designed this?

Presumably Jepp are ok.

Emir wrote:

especially where this DME is primary navaid to check distance in localizer approach

Yep, that’s really bad. The LUK freq is 109.850 MHz but that takes a lot of digging out to find… did anyone in the admin review the procedures vs plates at all?

That’s interesting. Are you sure they were not terminal waypoint that ATC happened to use enroute?

No idea, never been inspired to check. It happens more in the UK because we rarely fly the filed route and are almost always on a modified trajectory roughly in the direction we want.
So the call will be route to xxxx. At that point you immediately need to know the new track regardless of the distance and faffing around with SD may or may not put you right. So I never do that. I go to the navigator or GP 1st, get enroute, then refer to SD to see if we can cross match, which somtimes we can’t.
It’s not a big deal for me, but I would like being IFR in controlled airspace in the UK, only with SD. I would not use it, leave it on, and just work the navigator only.

did anyone in the admin review the procedures vs plates at all?

This plate is like this since forever. I wrote few times asking for it to be amended and then just quit.

That’s horrible. Who designed this? Presumably Jepp are ok.

Crocontrol designed them and Jepp are of course ok with frequencies specified as you would expect.

Here’s another example from the same author.

At least the AIP plates force you to study them beforehand. With Jepp, one might be tempted to just go and look at them when 50 miles out…

Of course, when you have a wild diversion, it’s not ideal. But not having to use Foreflight and paying on top for Jepp has its value, too.

The AIS offices all around Europe are missing a huge opportunity. Several years ago there was a initiative to harmonise the VFR chart publications. Only eurocontrol the EAD and AIM experts could organise such a harmonisation objective on IACs more tailored to the customers needs and not only complying with ICAO. Unfortunately I don’t see this happening anymore ,but you never know…A big improvement would be already to have a table with all relevant navaids and frequencies and similarly as jepp have the text descriptions in a table format on top…Nowadays with tablets you can easily zoom in and out on what is relevant. Anyway the Pdf stuff is outdated with today’s technologies. A European digital style guide would be a better way forward…..

Emir wrote:

However, I always wander who decided that it’s great idea to omit DME frequency from chart below (and from other Croatian AIP plates where DME is not colocated with VOR e.g. LSJ DME at LDLO), especially where this DME is primary navaid to check distance in localizer approach.

Wow, that’s just great!

Maybe having a copy of this or similar at hand is a good idea in this case.

boscomantico wrote:

At least the AIP plates force you to study them beforehand.

Yes you never know what lurks behind the corner. Still, Croatian plates together with several others (actually majority except Italy) are ok, especially for occasional IFR flights. Of course, standardization is missing and sometimes you have to spend some time to get used to country’s specific format but there are usable and in majority of cases have all necessary data. More frequent IFR flying to different countries and constant switching is not practical and poses safety threat.

I decided to do a flight from Zurich using SkyDemon and the AIP charts as I know the airport well. Here is my first experience:

• SkyDemon always shows the charts in portrait mode in the PDF viewer. I couldn’t find an option to rotate the chart, so it’s not comfortable to read it in flight. One option would be to download the PDF file (SkyDemon on PC or Autorouter) and open it in an alternative viewer.
• SkyDemon does not have the procedure points (SIDs and STARs) in its database. The aircraft database has them, which is OK for me.
• The Swiss AIP charts for SIDs and STARs are not georeferenced either. The approach charts are.
• The procedure description is not available on the Swiss AIP charts either. It is available in the AD document, as @boscomantico mentioned about other countries.
• The approach procedure charts do not have the morse code for the NAV aids, ILS, etc. for identification.

All in all, I can confirm what has been said above: With some experience, flying with SkyDemon and AIP charts is OK. At the beginning you have to make sure that the workload does not become too much and endanger the safety of the flight.

Vladimir wrote:

The Swiss AIP charts for SIDs and STARs are not georeferenced either.

Is it in SkyDemon only or the same applies if you use those charts within ForeFlight?

Vladimir wrote:

The approach procedure charts do not have the morse code for the NAV aids, ILS, etc. for identification.

Interesting… similar to Croatian DME issue. Who came to idea that this is not needed feature?