Sebastian_G wrote:
To be honest it does not make much sense in many areas in Germany as DFS reoganizes their IFR sectors all the time according to traffic, staff etc. If you need an IFR pick up you call on a frequency you know for that area and usually they tell you to switch to another one… Next time you try the new frequency and the game starts all over again.Exactly. That’s why the DFS also wants pilots to call FIS for IFR-pickups, when departing from a VFR-only aerodrome. Nonetheless, the Radar frequency around my German homebase is always the same: 125.225, which is also the Approach frequency for Dortmund and Paderborn.
Lately I did discover an error in the way SkyDemon did represent the C airspace over the entire French Alps FL115 to FL195.You mean that former class D airspace? Or did SkyDemon even show it as class C before, which would have been even more incorrect?
Maybe it’s my settings but I will be impressed if you have a picture of SkyDemon showing Echo Airways from FL065 to FL115 above Calais & LeTouquet ?That looks like an old paper chart. The ATS-waypoint “GURLU” even doesn’t exist anymore.
arj1 wrote:
Doesn’t work, sorry – it shows the airways but not the Class E in that area, even in airways mode. (I’m talking about Class E FL65+ around Calais).
The airspace outside Dieppe is a good example of how airspace is depicted in SD. The “default” class E along the airways is not depicted, while “filler” class E between airways is. While in many cases, this way of presenting airspace information works well, I think that in the case of France it is just confusing.
Airborne_Again wrote:
arj1 wrote: Doesn’t work, sorry – it shows the airways but not the Class E in that area, even in airways mode. (I’m talking about Class E FL65+ around Calais).The airspace outside Dieppe is a good example of how airspace is depicted in SD. The “default” class E along the airways is not depicted, while “filler” class E between airways is. While in many cases, this way of presenting airspace information works well, I think that in the case of France it is just confusing.
That was precisely my point! :)
And yes, I actually DID ask Tim and I think at the time his answer was that it is OK for flying in France – if you are VFR, you don’t care, and if you are IFR, then you are under radar control anyway.
Frans wrote:
That looks like an old paper chart. The ATS-waypoint “GURLU” even doesn’t exist anymore.
Those are funny ones because it’s a pure “RNAV IFR waypoint on VFR chart”, the only ones that London FIS are happy for you to report without getting a lecture 
even for IFR bellow FL95, UK ATS have a handful list of usable & approved RNP/RNAV waypoints OCAS
Echo airspace over Calais & LeTouquet from FL65 to FL115 is still there:
- It still in CAA VFR map but I not longer have it (yes the one I attached is outdated, do you have a recent one without it?)
- It’s not in SkyDemon by choice as it’s a VFR product (also, “I am not fixing it unless France fix it first” )
- It’s not on DGAC VFR maps as they decided not to to show it
- It’s in AIP/Jepp/IAP/VAC for anyone who flies around
Of course this bit of Echo is only relevant to those who fly IFR to Calais & LeTouquet under LTMA without radar handover to/from London Control, but it’s also something as VFR, I need to keep in mind when flying near clouds
https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/depot/layers/GEOGRAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.MAPS.SCAN-OACI/legendes/GEOGRAPHICALGRIDSYSTEMS.MAPS.SCAN-OACI-legend.pdf
https://www.geoportail.gouv.fr/donnees/carte-oaci-vfr
arj1 wrote:
That was precisely my point! :)
And yes, I actually DID ask Tim and I think at the time his answer was that it is OK for flying in France – if you are VFR, you don’t care, and if you are IFR, then you are under radar control anyway.
And he is exactly right with that.
There is so much weirdly shaped class E out there in France and Germany. It totally messes up the screen. Yet gives no really important information to the VFR flyer, which the product is made for. Hence it makes sense to hide class E completely when flying in these countries (there is a toggle in the settings for this). And he is also right about IFR in France: you don’t have to care about class E either, because you have to remain in radio contact with ATC anyway, and they will therefore object if they don’t want you in some bit of class E (where they obviously must separate IFR from IFR).
Btw, it’s the same in Denmark (class E airways surrounded by class G airspace in the lower levels) – not shown on the ICAO chart. And Skydemon doesn’t show it either.
arj1 wrote:
And yes, I actually DID ask Tim and I think at the time his answer was that it is OK for flying in France – if you are VFR, you don’t care, and if you are IFR, then you are under radar control anyway.
You’re not under radar control in class G. In any country where IFR in class G is feasible, I really would want to know both at the flight planning stage and at any point in time in flight if I’m in controlled airspace or not.
Also, it certainly doesn’t hurt for a VFR pilot to know that (s)he is flying in controlled airspace as the likelihood of encountering IFR traffic is greater.
boscomantico wrote:
There is so much weirdly shaped class E out there in France and Germany. It totally messes up the screen. Yet gives no really important information to the VFR flyer, which the product is made for. Hence it makes sense to hide class E completely when flying in these countries (there is a toggle in the settings for this).
I wouldn’t mind so much if it was clearly stated somewhere what the hidden airspace was, but I haven’t seen that anywhere in SD. The class E toggle doesn’t affect the “default” airspace, btw.
boscomantico wrote:
Btw, it’s the same in Denmark (class E airways surrounded by class G airspace in the lower levels) – not shown on the ICAO chart. And Skydemon doesn’t show it either.
Good to know, what are the rules on flying IFR Golf/Echo? or transition VFR/IFR in Denmark? I am sure any IFR pilot would love to know if they are in Echo or Golf when crossing Sweden/Denmark at low levels? or operating in a VFR airfield in Denmark?
I learned about Echo near Calais when Lille told us once that we are still on the assigned vector (after about 5min), we felt like muppets
Airborne_Again wrote:
I wouldn’t mind so much if it was clearly stated somewhere what the hidden airspace was, but I haven’t seen that anywhere in SD.
True, there is no full documentation available to users. Internally, they very likely keep a log of everything they decide to do or not do. On paper, it would likely be hundreds of pages, so I sort of understand they don’t want to drown the users with that. I guess the percentage of SD users asking themselves which types of class E are shown and which are not is miniscule.
The class E toggle doesn’t affect the “default” airspace, btw.
I don’t understand. For me, setting the toggle to “off” makes ALL the class E boundary lines disappear.
