Piper PA28 Owner/Pilots of EuroGA

• How long have you flown the PA28? Back in 2014 I logged my first hour back on a PA28. My latest 9d ago too.
• Which version? most hours on my club’s -161’s. In South Africa I have flown both a -140 and a -180. Took my IR on a R-200.
• How many hours so far? Around 360
• How and when did you find it/buy it? My club owns two.
• Price? N/A
• What’s the history of the plane? Both have been through some flight schools and clubs.
• What would you tell every pilot who will fly a Pa28 – nice to know / need to know?! The factored hours for the wing AD tells you zilch (I have counter-examples both ways)
• Any memorable anecdotes? Ice-skating on a frozen lake, the rudder loses grip below ~40 kts, trying to turn became like a handbrake 180.
• What was your nicest flight in a Pa28? Probably LFLY-LFKF. EDTF-LFNG not far behind. Last year’s EDMV-EDMK-LFGA right along the Alps in clear blue sky is up there too. Some segments in South Africa.
• What was your scariest experience? 1. Not long after my PPL, I was about to enter a cloud (some contact with the ground, but all grey forward). Did a controlled 180° and flew home. I can hear my heavy breathing breaking the squelch on the GoPro recording. 2. Some time after I started my IR-training, but with only sim time, I not only entered a cloud but committed to IFR flying, and got vectored to a nearby field (It’s in the ILAFFT).
• What do you like about it? Simple, robust, no fuss.
• What do you dislike about it? Essentially max 3 POB for any kind of distance. Not super fast. There’s no way to exit gracefully from the right seat.
• Shortest strip? 590m damp grass. In SA even 800m dry dirt is short.
• Highest Elevation? 8000 ft DA (FASI @ 28°C)
• Highest Altitude? I rarely calculate true altitude, so either FL100 on some IFR trips, or in South Africa where I reached the plane’s ceiling (approx 12k ft DA).
• Fastest Groundspeed? The most remarkable was probably 126 kts ground speed in a cruise-climb with a -161 (40kts in the back). Needless to say, the trip home was painful.
• Longest flight? Probably LFLY-LFKF.

How long have you flown the PA28? 20 yrs +
Which version? -161
How many hours so far? 1500+
How and when did you find it/buy it? Was a club plane, bought out other members in stages.
Price? I’m not answering that!
What’s the history of the plane? US registry till 1990, then UK, some training and club flying, private for 20yrs.
What would you tell every pilot who will fly a Pa28 – nice to know / need to know?! Learn the proper approach speeds. Make sure the Gascolator drain doesn’t stick open.
Any memorable anecdotes? Carb heat broke hot in middle of Irish sea, mended it myself with parts from a bike shop (under engineer supervision!)
What was your nicest flight in a Pa28? Friedrichshafen – Portoroz thro’ the alps at 10,000’.
What was your scariest experience? Efato due gascolator drain (see above).
What do you like about it? Reliable, parts available everywhere.
What do you dislike about it? Leaks in the rain. No good for sightseeing downwards!
Shortest strip? Highest Elevation? 450m. No high elevations (yet)
Highest Altitude? Fastest Groundspeed? 10’000 (per above). Sligo – Wellesbourne in 2 Hrs (281 nm!).
Longest flight? Many 3-4 Hrs but memorably Modlin EPMO – Braunschweig EDVE 370nm.

Note: Keeping assets is a character defect. I still have, and drive, my first Land Rover (1951, purchased for £50 in 1971) and have no intention to trade the Warrior for anything else. For me it’s the trip that matters, not the plane, and the Warrior gives me the best tradeoff of capability, reliability and cost of ownership for long range VFR touring. Pre-covid, we went every summer on a tour of Scandinavia meeting contacts in every capital and was never delayed by weather or tech issues for more than a day or two. The one big downside is the downward visibility and in the US I fly the 172 (similar TT and ranges) and enjoy the extraordinary view, especially the wrap around windscreen in the SP. The 172 goes higher (and needs to in the Rockies) but the luggage compartment is awful! In UK, I take comfort from having the wing between me and the cold, dark sea.

• How long have you flown the PA28? 8 years
• Which version? PA 28 Arrow 3
• How many hours so far? 800
• How and when did you find it/buy it? We joined a group of 3 other pilots and bought a share they announced in a pilots magazine.
• Price? Over the years we bought the other shares, so it was slow step into the ownership. We sold it after 8 years for around 70.000 €.
• What’s the history of the plane? No damage history, well maintained, now in the ownership of a flight school.
• What would you tell every pilot who will fly a Pa28 – nice to know / need to know?! Take a good look at the fuel drains. They are located over the wheels and if they are leaking it will destroy the rubber of the wheel slowly.
• Any memorable anecdotes? Too many to write them down here, we have been around everywhere in Europe with the Arrow and there are so many memories. We have often been on grass strips with her, even on short ones, and I can echo what others said, it’s a good shortfield performer.
• What was your nicest flight in a Pa28? Can‘t say, but our trips to Scandinavia including the north cape where fabulous.
• What was your scariest experience? None.
• What do you like about it? Easy to handle, good payload and compared to the Bonnie it feels like having more space in the cockpit.
• What do you dislike about it? Nothing.
• Shortest strip? Highest Elevation? 500 m, no idea,nothing exceptional high.
• Highest Altitude? Fastest Groundspeed? 13000 ft, 205 knots but that was with a really strong tailwind and the controller commented on it: „You have never been so fast with that plane before, don‘t you?“ He was right.
• Longest flight? North cape, Greece, Spain

• How long have you flown the PA28? Since March 2015, about half a year post-PPL. I wanted to go places, and this is the fastest plane we have in the club
• Which version? Mostly the club’s Arrow I, but also an Archer III for the ATO part of the CB-IR. They would have had an Arrow IV, but I saw no benefit in paying extra for the RG which I did not need for the purpose.
• How many hours so far? 111 h in the Arrow, 14h in the Archer
• How and when did you find it/buy it? n/a, me and the plane joined the club at almost the same time
• Price? I don’t know who paid what for it, but ours goes for 151 €/h wet and the commercial school’s one for 216 €/h, also wet.
• What’s the history of the plane? I’ll stick to the club one, because I know its story better. Built in 1968 it was N-reg for a short time, then quickly imported to Germany and put on D-reg. After some time and a change of owner it went back to N-reg, and finally after yet another change of owner back to D-reg in 2003. Changed hands again afterwards, to the last two private owners who were also members of our club. They saw they did not fly it enough, and so they gave the aircraft to the club, AFAIK as a (tax deductible) donation some time in 2014. As far as we know this is the first time this plane is used in a club environment. Since we do not offer CPL training it doesn’t accumulate many landings, but gets used as VR/IFR touring plane and for IFR training. Both wings had to be repaired at some time in its life, probably due to crappy crosswind landings. But that has been solved, and the avionics have been catapulted into the 21st century- we expect many happy flying years to come!
• What would you tell every pilot who will fly a Pa28 – nice to know / need to know?! First of all, fly the proper approach speeds or stop complaining about the floating… one elderly man used to have an Arrow IV he flew at 100 KIAS on final because “he liked the control feeling better”. Needless to say he used up half of the 725m runway floating along in ground effect… Especially for the RG versions: Grease the mechanism, often! Especially if you use unimproved fields. A little bit of grease in the right places will save you loads of money! If you want to save even more, practise crosswind landing on something sturdy before trying it on an Arrow… the gear hates crabbed landings, and will make you pay for it sooner or later by developing cracks. That money is easily saved!
• Any memorable anecdotes? I did my 200th hour in our Arrow, almost exactly mid-channel on my first crossing.
• What was your nicest flight in a Pa28? The above, and the first solo IFR flight after I got the rating!
• What was your scariest experience? They didn’t manage to scare me yet.
• What do you like about it? To me, the feel is much, much nicer than the contemporary era Cessna planes. Compared to the C172s I know, it feels much more direct, and the seats actually stay where they should. Plus, I am also a low wing person -I just like the overall package.
• What do you dislike about it? If you choose to build a plane with a single door, why on earth isn’t it on the pilot’s side, like in a Navion?
• Shortest strip? Highest Elevation? Heligoland EDXH and Kempten-Durach EDMK
• Highest Altitude? Fastest Groundspeed? FL100, about 180 kts GS
• Longest flight? 3 1/4 h Nordholz to Cambridge

Out of curiosity, why are you asking, Snoopy? Are you looking into buying one?

I fly my PA28RT201, AKA Piper Arrow IV since 2017 when i bought it in Finland. The airplane was initialy a Finish Airforce plane, allocated to a liaison unit (never used for training) and mid first decade 2000, selled to a group of seven pilots for their own use.

After seen the plane on Planecheck, I made a first trip to Finlad, saw the plane a nd requested a ore-buy check, and on my second trip I flew it to his first homebase in Cyprus. It was my first (and unique) plane after finalizing PPL. Later, as my work place was about to change, I moved the plane to Portugal and also the registration to D (OH to 5B and later D).

The airplane has currently 9,000 flying hours, midtime enginne.

I recently had to make decision if I would keep it or would invest into a more sifisticated and faster plane. Since prives has recently became unrealistic, and speed coast a lot of money, I decided that instead I would spend a considerable amount of money to buy something that I am not aware of the conditions, and that I would not probably find what I want, to keep it and upgrade it. So, now it’s parked at Czech Republic to completely upgrade the avionics with Garmin (all glass cockpit), meaning that it is an investment to keep it for many years (unless I get the euromillions).

It has been a pleasent journey, it took me several times to cross euripe, from Cyprus to Portugal, from Cyprus to north of europe, or from Portugal to east of Europe. Not the fastest, not the slower, it is a fair plane that (with limitations which most of us flying GA have it), takes me where I want to go.

What I miss? A bit more speed and a bit lazy to climb, more MTOW and most important, FIKI. And the last it’s going to be my next investment.

And yes, I bought it in 2017 at an excellent price: 46,000 euros.

@Imsl1967 You said FIKI is going to be your next investment: is there a STC to make an Arrow FIKI?

NicoKM wrote:

@Imsl1967 You said FIKI is going to be your next investment: is there a STC to make an Arrow FIKI?

I don’t think you can do more than just heated prop on Arrow…

My understanding, only PA32 has the CAV system for TKS retrofit

An electrical hot prop on turbo Arrow 4 is more than enough IMO, the wing is draggy already and quick climbs are manageable but I doubt it’s the right platform to cruise with ice? for descents, you gotta love the 2.5km runway in Dijon even with rime ice on that T-tail

NicoKM

https://www.cav-systems.com/tks/retrofit/

Hopefuly they will come with solutions in a near future. O5herwise only prop.