I think nearly everyone does 0/0 take-off and Cat III approaches when training for the UK IMC rating in Scotland – the object being to train people to use the rating with a degree of confidence/competence, not just to pass the check-ride.
Of course, in a bushplane on a 50 m wide runway, 0/0 take-off is a joke. You have to maintain a heading of +/- 15 degrees for about six seconds. Most people can manage at least half of that with eyes shut, since the wings are level and it’s just like driving a car at 20-30 mph.
Cobalt wrote:
Were any of the above departure accidents by current instrument rated pilots?…and departing IFR!
Cobalt wrote:
Were any of the above departure accidents by current instrument rated pilots?
I posted this under the assumption they were, under the bold assumtion that someone who isn’t, wouldn’t normally depart in fog. In Germany, there is no IFR in G, and I’ve heard rumours that sometimes, somewhere, people do feel tempted to depart VFR from a non-IR airfield, trying to get an IFR pickup later on. I assumed that would only be pilots who are or have once been capable of flying under instruments.
In Germany, there is no IFR in G
That, however, is not quite fully supported by what “never goes on” pretty well everywhere, starting with Egelsbach 
Many many posts on EuroGA about how Germany never has IMC between the runway and the MRVA, or some such…
“Low vis” departures are fairly common at non-instrument airports. Firstly you usually don’t have RVR measurement which directly means the departure vis is pilot-interpreted so the 400m requirement is unenforceable. This is for sure normal in the UK; I have no idea what the local rules are in Germany, and whether you are vulnerable to a “local self appointed airfield policeman” who might report you. And even at instrument airports, if there is no RVR measurement… see e.g. here.
What worries me about very low vis takeoffs is where you go if you have a problem. Returning is by definition impossible.
That’s very true; however that is the case for any departure with wx below approach minima, and one does those often enough… especially when operating out of airports like Shoreham which have say 800ft MDA in the prevailing wind. Or a departure out of any non-instrument airport is potentially non-returnable.
Once the airplane is in the air and climbing, it is just like any other instrument flight with respect to engine issues. And we do that all the time. Even at night on instruments. Unless you consider the problem significant enough to ban IFR flight in single engine airplanes the issues really aren’t any different.
And besides – which would you rather be in for an instrument takeoff: A nice turbo Cessna 310 or a simple Skylane? I have owned and flown both. I would FAR prefer to be in the Skylane given an engine failure at takeoff. The Skylane hits slower! And the engine in the Skylane is in the front of the pilot. In the 310 the only thing in front of the pilot is some .020 aluminum. Basically tin foil. And, of course, there is the control issue with the twin. Plus, just doing the math. The C-310 has twice the chance of an engine hiccup.
Then there is the issue of enforceability. Rules that are difficult to enforce (impossible?) are bad rules. You say I had inadequate visibility? Where were you standing? I was in the cockpit! Weather varies by a lot (when we are talking local visibility) depending on where we are located.
Neil wrote:
What worries me about very low vis takeoffs is where you go if you have a problem. Returning is by definition impossible.
It is certainly true that returning is not legally or in many ways practically possible if your vis is below say 550m. Needing to make an immediate return is of course also very rare but more lilely in a single eg due to engine not making power but you still went and got airborne.
We can all agree that fog is just about the most frustrating weather condition however!
Peter wrote:
That’s very true; however that is the case for any departure with wx below approach minima, and one does those often enough… especially when operating out of airports like Shoreham which have say 800ft MDA in the prevailing wind. Or a departure out of any non-instrument airport is potentially non-returnable.
Indeed, we brief a diversion to Doncaster when departing Gamston in poor weather, but if it’s very very poor vis at Gamston it’s likely below IFR minima at Doncaster which is 9 miles away. So we look at the weather at East Mids, or Humberside, etc.
GaryandAlice wrote:
Once the airplane is in the air and climbing, it is just like any other instrument flight with respect to engine issues.
I don’t wholly agree, there is a difference between an engine problem at 200 ft and an engine problem in the cruise.
Single Engine IFR in proper hard IMC is not for me; I have had the privilege of doing it in much heavier aircraft and wouldn’t go back.
I’ve once heard that i.e. Lufthansa does not do any IFR training flights in or above a closed cloud base of 2000ft AGL in their single engine airplanes. Don’t know if that’s true or even SOP at the major carriers, maybe someone can help ?
I don’t know what’s riskier – only engine out and all you have is gliding distance, or having a second engine, in these conditions. I’m about to do my MEP rating and cannot judge that. But maybe someone can.
Isn’t a twin (with sufficient single engine performance) better to fly in that weather ?
