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Do passengers understand the risk?

From here

While we are at it, let’s ban motorcycling passengers – as clearly no adult can be trusted to judge the risk of being passenger on a motorcycle. And also, being a passenger in a car with a male driver below age 25.

In my experience, most passengers of light aircraft take convincing that it is NOT risky.

Biggin Hill

Cobalt wrote:

While we are at it, let’s ban motorcycling passengers – as clearly no adult can be trusted to judge the risk of being passenger on a motorcycle. And also, being a passenger in a car with a male driver below age 25.

To be fair, I think there is a difference. We dont ban smoking I guess on the basis that the information that it will porbably kill you is so widely available and independently published that you would indeed be pretty stupid not to be aware. Kill yourself if you wish. The same is true of pillion passengers. Ask anyone about the risks of riding pillion and they will give you a reasonable assessment.

Ask anyone about the risks of taking off with 150 m viz in a SEP and they will not have a clue. Their only point of reference will be what the pilot tells them, or doesnt, in which case they will most likely assume aircraft operated commercially do it all the time, so it must be ok.

@Cobalt

That’s because most passengers in light aircraft have absolutely no idea about the risk. And many pilots tell naive passengers that “flying is the safest transportation” that exists.

Sure thing, there’s very few people I would ride with on a motorcycle as a passenger. But I also don’t fly with many people. Only with the ones I know well or who are professionals.

Fuji_Abound wrote:


Ask anyone about the risks of taking off with 150 m viz in a SEP and they will not have a clue. Their only point of reference will be what the pilot tells them, or doesnt, in which case they will most likely assume aircraft operated commercially do it all the time, so it must be ok.

There is not agreement on here amongst pilots, how could passengers properly understand the risks?

EGTK Oxford

That’s actually one thing I always think about when I see the Flight sharing websites (“Wingly”). People who know zero about flying will go on a flight with a pilot they meet the first time and they know nothing about … I definitely wouldn’t!

Two years ago I put up a Facebook post that I would take anybody who calls me to Greece for free in the Cirrus. And I got a message from a 19 year old student pilot. His mother brought him to the airport at 6 a.m. and she did not even ask me “how long I fly” or anything. I know I would not avt like that with my kids … But it was another proof to me that non-flying people have no idea about the risks. It was a great flight though.

If that is the only remaining issue, proportional regulation would impose mandatory information for passengers, not ban operation.

Biggin Hill

That is what the cost sharing sites agreed to do by signing the EASA charter at Friedrichshaven

LFPT, LFPN

Fuji_Abound wrote:

We dont ban smoking I guess on the basis that the information that it will porbably kill you is so widely available and independently published that you would indeed be pretty stupid not to be aware.

Nope, it’s not banned because the state loves the tax revenue. Tobacco must be the most cynical example of state greed.

On topic: no, I don’t think pax understand the risk. Aviation is too far removed from most people’s daily lives, as opposed to road traffic, be that in a car or on a motorbike. Personally, I’d rather fly with someone I don’t know well than ride pillion. A pilot at the very least will have had some training….

Last Edited by 172driver at 17 Jun 00:53

I have a friend who works in the aviation industry teaching among other things, risk assessment. He said bluntly that he would never fly in my aircraft nor let his daughters fly in it either. However, his wife is quite happy to fly with me, and as far as I know would not ban her daughters from doing so. They are grown up now and have never expressed any interest in aviation.
I used to belong to an aeroclub that organised LOTO (bingo) sessions in the village, which were always well attended. Amongst the prizes was a joyride in the club plane usually piloted by the aeroclub President (a local farmer). On one session I was sitting opposite a stout farmer’s wife who won one of these joyrides, while I won a kilo of local sausage. She asked if I would like to swap prizes. I think she was more interested in the kilo of sausage than the joyride…
I once took three prizewinners for a flight in the club plane. They were ordinary country folk who seemed to have no apprehension. I was just told not to make any steep turns. They seemed happy enough, but I don’t think I would do this again. These baptêmes de l’air were practiced regularly in French aeroclubs, probably still are. I never heard of any mishaps with them. The accidents you read about tend to be mission-oriented flights with family or colleagues like this tragic case.



Simon

Some do understand the risks, some don’t. Generally, people are aware that small planes are far riskier than commercial flights. So their decision to fly with someone is an act of trust. People should have the right to take this risk. People should also have the right to take risks they can’t fully quantify even though a certain percentage will inevitably go badly. Depriving people of this freedom, or believing life can be fully de-risked (or even that risks can be fully quantified) takes an essential aspect of living away that is important for happiness. Our ancestors survived huge, often unquantified risks and that made them happy. Is our destiny to become obese couch potatoes safely surfing the internet, and suffering from ailments that result partly from a lack of adrenaline, testosterone, etc until we die?

Are there no health consequences to being too risk averse?

The risks do impose a burden of responsibility on the pilot to be on his/her A game with passengers. I am more conservative with passengers than without.

I suspect people use a subjective (intuitive) method of asssessing pilot competence in deciding whether to trust him/her. It can be wrong of course, but it also might be sounder than we think. People can often sense recklessness, clumsiness or any type of “unfitness” in another person without knowing the trade. So they are making a risk assessment, but in a different way from the way a regulator will.

Last Edited by WhiskeyPapa at 17 Jun 07:08
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