Why isn't EVERYONE flying in the UK?

The problem is commercial SET operations are not allowed in the UK. Change that and a lot of small airports come into ply eg Plymouth

It will change… already some permissions in other countries. EASA will introduce it.

Biggest stupidity ever, given that the world’s leading SET manufacturers are all European. Preventing European companies from buying PC12 and going for King Airs instead.

Maybe AOCs should be replaced by PPLs with cost sharing. Not making money on a flight is still a better financial result than > 80% of the commercial AOCs

From 2 years ago:

here

That’s a TBM on a DGAC AOC.

Then you have this which is another SET operation.

Not much change since then. What did the French and the Finns do which nobody else has managed?

EASA plans to put it into effect in Q3 2016

http://easa.europa.eu/system/files/dfu/ToR%20RMT.0232%20and%200233%20(MDM.031(a)(b))%20Issue%202.pdf

local copy

If you could run an airline from say London City …

Forget it. Landing, Handling and passenger fees at LCY will be in the order of 500GBP (per passenger). People don’t pay this kind of money to be carried inside a single engine aeroplane. The ones for which money matters will get themselves driven to their destination by limo and the other ones will fly with an aeroplane that reflects their status. Two or three turbines and no propellers.

How does KLM do flights from AMS to LCY for £80 then?

Actually looking at their scheme of charges, they have an off peak landing fee of £0 !:Off-peak Charges: Relate to all other times including Saturday, and Sunday up to 1459.

Lunch in London then !

But seriously, when you add up all the charges and divide it by 9 pax and apply the “minimum per aircraft fee” to land something like a PC12 at LCY would cost £2426 or £269 per pax…..Myabe you could negotiate if you were serious about setting up an airline though.

AlanB wrote:

How does KLM do flights from AMS to LCY for £80 then?

They must be subsidised by other flights that are profitable. Maybe some of the passengers they pick up at LCY thereafter continue AMS to New York in business class and pay back their LCY landing fee that way…

But seriously, when you add up all the charges and divide it by 9 pax and apply the “minimum per aircraft fee” to land something like a PC12 at LCY would cost £2426 or £269 per pax….

If you try to establish something like a scheduled service with small aeroplanes you will quickly find out that you rarely get a plane full of passengers. With a nine seater you can be happy if you get four passengers on average. Been there – done it. Other than for remote island connections which are subsidised scheduled services with small aircraft never worked for any operator.

That is a shame, and probably why most of our airports are being turned into housing estates these days……

IMHO, the last thing one would do is a TBM/PC12 service LCY-Cardiff.

One would do Biggin-Cardiff or Southend-Cardiff.

And once you are going to Cardiff, which is obviously a rather “specialised market” you may as well fly on to Exeter, Newquay, Lands End and the Scilly Isles. The Scillies are pretty busy these days, with loads of turboprop twins. Alternative transport to that part of the UK is at best horrid.

That’s how the Greek Islands are done. They fly island to island to island, all day. It makes it easier to get a reasonable number of passengers, IMHO.

But you would then upset the existing operators that do those routes.

If you could run an airline from say London City to the south coast (shoreham, Bournemouth) then on to Devon and Cornwall (Plymouth, Newquay), across to Wales (Swansea/ Cardiff) then back it might work….Providing…you can have very fast turn around times – no more than 15 minute stops.

Unfortunately, you’re not going to get those turnarounds due to silly rules.

In the US for example, Southwest Airlines run services that make several stops. This way they can run direct services on unusual (and useful) routes. For instance if you’re going from Houston to SLC, you can get the Portland flight which started in New Orleans, stops in Houston where you get on, a stop at Albuquerque, SLC and then terminates at Portland, a bit like a train. At ABQ you just sit on the plane, ABQ passengers get off, some new passengers from ABQ get on and then off you go again.

Apparently in the UK you can’t do this – you have to make everyone get off and go through security again to reboard the exact same plane for no good reason. This makes this stopping service basically impossible.