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Channel Islands, Jersey, Guernsey, Alderney, EGJJ EGJB EGJA, have no PN for mainland Europe visitors - what are you all waiting for?

And all have avgas and jet-a1.

All are great destinations.

All are different.

So why so few pilots from the mainland fly there?

Only UK pilots get screwed over by the 12hr PN both ways – a straight job creation scheme for the police.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

How many pilots are aware that JJ, JA, JB have no PN from mainland?

I doubt PN is the main problem for people not flying these days? altough, I can’t find a reason why CI can’t work, they are brilliant places for fly-in (cheap fuel, easy airspace, instrument and plenty of things to see)

Some pilots from France do fly to CI as they are welcoming & easy for one day trips, airspace is easy, you are talking to one single radar ATSU, customs are very simple on arrival & departure…also lot of ATO/MIL people from France go there for “english/instrument training”, Jersey has every sort of approach handy (ILS, VOR, NDB, GPS, PAR, SRA), even non-TXP wing-shift F-reg ULM fly to JA with easy ATC permission on day !

Having said that lot pilots in France don’t cross open water without extra safety you get from “FIKI twins” (their words not mine, glide range physics don’t apply), unlike from UK where you have to “get wet” to go somewhere interesting?

PS: strictly speaking the famous ELP endorsement (FCL055 in DGAC words) is not even legally required to operate in Channel Islands airspace, maybe except on taxiways and in pubs? altough, I am sure someone with William Shakespeare & Victor Hugo litterature degrees with very restrictive view of flying will come to lecture us on this…I think actual flying on FPL from Dinard to Jersey tend to give better understanding of where flight plan EET sits on Brest FIR boundary

Last Edited by Ibra at 22 Jun 21:04
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

To answer your question (from a German POV):

Well, yes, the CI are indeed a mildly attractive destination for private flyers. Quite a few Germans fly there in summer. Reasons are:

  • it is a group of islands, which is always attractive
  • it is mildly exotic, due to its status and the cultural mix between British and Breton
  • the fuel is comaratively cheap

However, it will never a be a place where German private pilots fly to very often or in big numbers, because:

  • it’s a long way to go from Central Germany. You need much less flying time to get to northern Italy, Croatia, southern France, Denmark/southern Norway, etc.
  • it is still essentially Britain, which to most people means: poor weather, poor food, poor hotels, poor service attitude (all at least partially true for the CI)
  • most 100-knot flyers will need a stop in France, and we all know hoch much of a pain customs in France has become

The fact that the CI themselves require no customs-related PN is very far down in the list of factors. Remember most mainland pilots are not so accustomed to all this PN/PPR stuff anyway, so not having PN requirements is not really seen as a bonus, but as normality.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 23 Jun 08:10
Mainz (EDFZ), Germany

The first barrier is English

I guess distance plays a 2nd role here: most Austrian/German pilots fly to Croatia…Brits go to LeTouquet/Calais and that is it, only Peter goes to Croatia from UK

You don’t see many Brits in CI neither only those with business and life interest there…the long water crossing need rafts, twins, ferry tanks, dry suits and FIKI according to some

From France, lot of pilots in Normadie fly to CI, I think everyone in my SEP/ULM aeroclubs has done it already, one friend went two weeks ago from SaintAndre (LFFD) to Alderney (EGJA) via Cherbourg (LFRC), I was actually supposed to fly with him in his wing-shift but he decided midweek due to weather, I helped a bit with his planning, especially getting ATC permission for non-TXP ULM (24h PN email and phone call on day with ETA), the rest is very easy…he flew on ULM paper (no PPL, no FCL055) but he can talk English and has lot of tolerance for crappy British food: he lived in Essex and retires in Normandie

Anyway, PN is only a problem when one flies regularly with fixed schedule and dealing with weather, for a one-off or lifetime trip, it’s rarely an issue

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Jun 08:53
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

In that case we are into touring patterns

It is obvious from our fly-ins that for example it is very hard to get non-French / non-UK pilots to come to W France. The comment about poor customer service is definitely not confined to the UK, and I have had this comment directly from the pilots concerned

I think the distance is the biggest factor. ELP is a big issue in France but is rarely an issue with countries east of France.

Another plus for the C.I. is that they aren’t FR-only, unlike e.g. Ouessant which is not accessible to most pilots in Europe for that reason. Actually the geology (landscape) is very similar across all these, plus the Scilly Isles. This is Alderney again:

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

We should have Guernsey or Alderney fly-in on July 23/24 or July 30/31? sadly, there is nothing to plan or organize there for fly-in, I can help with getting CAVOK weather O/R with 24h PNR

Airspace and procedures are easy compared to Frankfurt IFR or London TMA
No customs PN required
Fuel always available
ATC are always around
26 possible IFR procedure

PS: Guernsey has (mid price) handling but their ramp is as big as Oshkosh, one can call and fly there with short 15min notice form nearby Islands !

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Jun 09:52
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

Been going to CI for decades, a great jewel in the British Isles. Take a southbound from Southampton and you will be there in just a few minutes! Just remember when leaving to ask ATC for a MUCH HIGHER transit altitude than you have been assigned.

UK, United Kingdom

The problem for are the regulations regarding the entry of our dog. It is nearly impossible to go there (same as to go to UK directly)This does stops us to go to the CI as well as to UK regularly, although it is so close to Brittany.

EDDS , Germany

Yes bringing dog to UK/CI from EU is problematic without AOC, there is a legal route I am aware for UK/CI to bring a bog is via a landing in Ireland or Northern Ireland but it’s a long detour for someone from Germany

ROI/NI – EU : is ok without paperwork as they are part of EU Customs Union
ROI/NI-UK/CI: have blanket exemption from DEFRA, see here

https://www.gov.je/Industry/PetsAndLivestock/PetMovements/Pages/ApprovedCarriers.aspx

Having said that I know someone who does not care, he regularly fly North Weald to Deauville (he had confirmation from authorities it’s OK for him as the dog is already ‘based in UK’ and not ‘imported from EU’ or ‘visiting from EU’)

Seems like some milking business is going on…

Last Edited by Ibra at 23 Jun 15:37
Paris/Essex, France, , United Kingdom

@lbra

I am aware for UK/CI to bring a bog is via a landing in Ireland or Northern Ireland

That‘s exactly what we have done last time. First landing at Weston (Dublin), then going to Exeter just to have been in UK first and then going to Jersey (direct Ireland to the CIs without having landed in England first is forbidden as well and they do check it). Even when departing at LFRQ it‘s a way to long.

EDDS , Germany
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