RV14 wrote:
easily be rebuilt from scratch in a few days time
I seriously doubt this assumption, unless you are a repeat offender, or a sheetmetal pro…
RV-14 and 10s are already drilled to size (or punched, or laser cut…), and close to 50% of them are quickbuilts in which the wings are, ahem, already wings, and the fuselage, ahem, already a fuselage, save for a skin or rib. On top of that the plans, or better said the IKEA assembly manual, even more correctly called KAI (Kit Assembly Instruction), offer no dimensions nor material specification (ok, that’s an easy one to guess 
).
The kind of questions and workmanship I see popping up on VAF would tend to support the lack of building knowledge of today’s assemblers.
@Dan wrote:
I seriously doubt this assumption, unless you are a repeat offender, or a sheetmetal pro…
Not that I should defend @RV14 but, I think he is suggesting to just rebuild them from new parts.
From the sound of things so far, it’s my impression that Van’s will not be offering entire components as a replacement option. I could be wrong. No guidance has been offered for people with completed components.
@RV14 doesn’t seam fazed by the devaluation of his project unless he doesn’t have any skin in the game or prospects of ever selling the lemon of a plane he has.
RV8Bob wrote:
he is suggesting to just rebuild them from new parts
You’re probably right…
Well, for me and other (maybe older?) builders, scratch built means, or maybe meant, building from plans only. Yes, more than one homebuilt, metal or else, has been built strictly following the sometimes vague guidance from the plans only. Kits were not always available, or builders just loved to take up the challenge. As an example, and to stay in the RV world, we have one RV-4 here that is nearing completion, albeit slowly. It has been entirely built by a sheetmetal pro working for Pilatus aircraft. And from what I’ve seen, that -4 is a work of art.
Rebuilding from new parts, the more so if said parts are pre-drilled (laser or not ), can effectively be done in a much shorter time than having to lay/trace/cut/bend/mark/drill/debur/dimple/primer/rivet a rib for example.
From the presentation, as well as the info provided to date, I just get the feeling that Van’s is trying hard to find a way to flatten this out and keep the expense as small as possible. I for one will certainly not condemn, nor praise them, for doing it.
Many have praised Van’s customer service over the years… I started my relationship with the company in 1988 when I ordered my RV-4 kit, and found the service average, no more, no less.
For me, the only big surprise in this whole debacle, is that nobody seemed to have noticed how bad the affected parts were, before shipping them to customers. Total lack of QC which I, nor probably Van’s, can explain…
@Dan, as a data point: building an aileron from scratch took the two of us 5 evenings, up to 3 hours per day
Starting from blue vinyl covered parts, everything debutred, full chemical conversion and corrosion protection (alumiprep, alodyne, epoxy primer), trailing edge glued with proseal. I hope you would find the job up to the standard you are used to.
Roger that @RV14, I’m trying to make the distinction from having to fabricate the parts (ribs, bulkheads, skins, etc.) from blank aluminum, e.g. what I and other call scratch built, and assembling from “ready made” parts such as covered by blue vinyl or without, as provided by Van’s. An entirely different amount of work…
RV14 wrote:
I hope you would find the job up to the standard you are used to.
I have absolutely no doubt about that 
RV14 wrote:
@Dan, as a data point: building an aileron from scratch took the two of us 5 evenings, up to 3 hours per day
Starting from blue vinyl covered parts, everything debutred, full chemical conversion and corrosion protection (alumiprep, alodyne, epoxy primer), trailing edge glued with proseal. I hope you would find the job up to the standard you are used to.
That is probably accurate. Certainly once you are ‘into’ the build and familiar with the processes, things can move quite quickly. Especially for a part you have done before – as with many practical tasks it is a whole lot easier the second time around. I’d be hopeful I could better that time for some of the empennage surfaces, second time around. Still, what you mention there is 30 man-hours – not an inconsiderable commitment for those us of unfortunate enough to have to work for a living, or with family commitments.
I’ve no knowledge of scratch building, but I am in awe of the concept. I would not even attempt this if I was not receiving pre-fabricated parts.
I agree with @Dan that the major issue here is the total lack of QC. How any company can let such shoddy work from a subcontractor slip through the net and go out to customers for a full year is beyond my comprehension.
@Graham I believe we did a full circle, back to page one. Who is the builder? who is responsible for quality? How much QA do you expect Vans to perform taking into account the price we pay for the kits? In my opinion it’s great value. I remember you complaining about some parts ($100) that didn’t look nice. Just to look at things from a different angle: please compare that amount to what it would take to refuel your RV8 at marina di campo? this is what I saw back in may:
How many litters for the parts you didn’t like?
How much would I have to spend to purchase a new certified airplane capable of traveling at 190+ Knots @6000ft with grass strip and aerobatic capabilities?
I probably couldn’t afford one, that’s why I m grateful that Vans has given me the opportunity to build and fly what I fly.
Your RV8 will most probably be faster than my RV14 and even more fun to fly.
Are you sure you are getting 190+knts @ 6000ft in ISA conditions?
