ADS-B or FLARM out – why not?
For those of you without ADS-B out or FLARM out, why not?
I see so many aircraft that don’t send out any “electronic conspicuity” – it’s like a car driving at night without their lights on.
Since it’s so cheap to add this, why aren’t more people doing it?
Read this thread to find out 
Each type of device does a small part-job. Even those which do ADS-B OUT are mostly invisible on certified ADS-B IN systems.
The best system is an active TAS (TCAS-1) but it can’t be done for less than 10k+ – see here. I have the Avidyne version; TAS605. They do an ADS-B IN one; the TAS605A. And radiating certified ADS-B OUT (which gets picked up by all ADS-B IN receivers, with a GTX345 and similar.
The transponder (Mode C/S) is the biggest common denominator in GA by far, due to airspace requirements around Europe. ATC cannot see any of the other signals.
eurogaguest1980 wrote:
eurogaguest198028-Feb-24 07:23362596
ADS-B or FLARM out – why not?For those of you without ADS-B out or FLARM out, why not?
I see so many aircraft that don’t send out any “electronic conspicuity” – it’s like a car driving at night without their lights on.
Since it’s so cheap to add this, why aren’t more people doing it?
I agree with you @eurogaguest1980
What ever little one can do – why not do at least that. Even, as someone suggested, SafeSky app (Cellular/Mobile phone/iPad etc.) is a great option, though very simple and with obvious restrictions. It´s a start and better than nothing at all.
If receiving aircraft (users) don´t want to receive ADS-B from uncertified sources, which I accept some users don´t, well, that´s their choice.
I fly around 0-8000´AGL and I´d like to receive all information I can (be it Flarm, ADS-B, SafeSky) – my choice.
SafeSky, Sky Echo 2 and ideally mode S transponder with ADS-B Out (certified), all displayed in a well positioned glareshield iPad with SkyDemon.
Horses for courses.
Peter wrote:
Peter28-Feb-24 07:4401
Read this thread to find out Each type of device does a small part-job. Even those which do ADS-B OUT are mostly invisible on certified ADS-B IN systems.
The users filtering out uncertified (sil=0) ADS-B traffic, with installed certified ADS-B IN systems, will mostly be users also having TCAS, operating in controlled airspaces where transponders are mandatory equipment, so they don´t need ADS-B IN for their missions, they´ll see traffic on TCAS anyways.
GA private operators should be just fine with uncertified ADS-B traffic on whatever traffic awareness display (“see”)they have.
Yeager wrote:
The users filtering out uncertified (sil=0) ADS-B traffic, with installed certified ADS-B IN systems, will mostly be users also having TCAS, operating in controlled airspaces where transponders are mandatory equipment, so they don´t need ADS-B IN for their missions, they´ll see traffic on TCAS anyways.
I don’t agree with that statement. TCAS is a very expensive system, latest version after Uberlingen was revised to TCAS II Version 7.1 for better RA, I don’t know if it even is installed on a true GA aircraft below 2T. TAS (TCAS I) is a different matter but still expensive for GA as you need the phase antenna (s) and processor. There is very limited choice on the market for that…..I wish there was more choice… the US has now focused on ADS-B in/out it seems for traffic advisory as a controlled certified environment.
My first experience having a certified ADS-B in/out system on GPS screen and having ADS-B in through ADL on a mobile device, that you will never have all traffic and its just a nice to have on top of the eyeball. TAS is for sure the best defence in all airspace types for GA non pressurized class of aircraft as its TSO certified and has the right traffic warning processing for traffic as part of the certification i accordance with the TCAS I.
Vref wrote:
I don’t agree with that statement.
Which part is it that you don´t agree with @Vref?
Most users (operators) of ADS-B in, that don´t have TCAS, wouldn´t they be “accepting” uncertified (sil=0) on their ADS-B in?
Where´s users that do have TCAS, and ADS-B IN installed, would be the only ones that possibly (often) elect to filter out (not displaying) uncertified ADS-B?
You don’t “filter out” SIL0/1. It just doesn’t show. Not sure about 1 or 2… @NCyankee posted on this recently.
operating in controlled airspaces
Not at all; TCAS1 is most useful OCAS.
TCAS is a very expensive system
TCAS1 is some 10k+ and the Lynx (see the threads) is the least pricey.
Another factor is that most people don’t want bits of velcro-attached stuff in their plane.
And there is no legal way to merge certified ADS-B with uncertified ADS-B although I will implement such a thing when I finally get the TAS605A (when Avidyne can do an exchange unit; currently everything has to go back to the US).
I think the main answer to eurogaguest1980’s Q is that most people realise they see only a small % of the traffic.
TAS or TCAS may well be the.best way to go, or even ADSB in and out.
In France the majority of aircraft already have a mode C or mode S transponder and an ATS system which gives traffic warnings if you are in contact with them.
In the circuit or areas close to the airfield, especially those without an ATS many now a turning to SafeSky. Why? Because you can get it free and works very well in such areas where traffic congestion is likely to be high. Over the last few years SafeSky has evolved incredibly so if your last visit to their site was a few years ago, I would recommend taking another look.
Like elsewhere we have already been faced with the costs of upgrading to mode S (for which the UK alone got subsidies from Brussels) and 8.33, mandating everyone to change to ADSB in and out would cause a multitude of problems.
Gliders are normally equipped with Flarm in and out these days.
Along with recommending another look at SafeSky (I have no financial stake in the business) may I also recommend pilots take another look at another free nav app which I also have no stake in, and that is Airmate for both IFR and VFR flight plans (although there is a paying bit for more extensive services). Airmate too has evolved greatly since I last posted about it on here and @Peter kindly checked it out.
It’s IT.
Peter wrote:
And there is no legal way to merge certified ADS-B with uncertified ADS-B
I don’t know what you mean by “merge” here, but as I and wigglyamp have written in another thread there are at least three devices that show all ADS-B traffic regardless of SIL etc. levels.
Non panel mounted, etc. Not displaying on PFDs on which you would see TXP data.
