Are aeroclubs holding back GA?

boscomantico wrote:

These 28 day rules – which I have seen a lot in the UK – are ridiculous. Money-making schemes indeed

Really and since when did you see a rich flying instructor?

Finacially its not even worth while me even turning up at the airfield on a saturday morning. If I did one days overtime a year of my day job it would pay me more than I earn in a whole year working 20 hours a week at my local airfield.

No contradiction there. Call it a revenue-making scheme if you wish.

I know that the majority of flight schools don’t earn any significant amount of money. And I know PPL instructors get between 0 and 20 Euros an hour. But these are different subjects. Also, this situation will not improve by imposing 28-day check-flights, since many pilots will be frustrated and simply drop out of flying because all their annual budget will be gone after doing 12 of these checks in a year.

Of course, all this is a bit tongue in cheek but you will get my point.

Bathman wrote:

28 days is in most cases simply ridiculous and has no justification whatsoever other than owner’s right to impose what ever they want… of couse customers have the right to choose a less restrictive organisation.

No its not. One pilot in particular I was dying to fly with and I had to wait until he was out of the 28 days currency before I could fly with him.

That’s a bit like Europcar saying “We have to do a test ride with every customer before each and every car rental unless you have rented with us in the past 28 days”. And to back up their argument, they present a case where one driver misbehaved and caused an accident. Point proven?

But I agree with MD here: it’s the pilots’ fault. They must get away from the flying schools after they get their license. At least from those that really don’t want your business. It’s a very poor deal to throw your hard earned money at people that don’t appreciate your business. Run! Get into a group / synidcate. While these have their problems as well, at least you won’t have those as described by Bathman.

We only apply the 28 day rule if you haven’t flown in the previous 28 days. If you have flown then you don’t need a check flight.

If you have more than 100 pic then it goes upto 90 days.

I’m quite happy for people to take their business elsewhere if they are not happy.

I’ve experienced the standard of some PpL’s and it is truly shocking.

And for the record we do encourage people to buy into groups and the school where I spend most of my time is the only one to do training in people’s own aircraft. And when this happens the school doesn’t make a single penny out of it.

Patrick wrote:

That’s a bit like Europcar saying

Maybe that is the crux with it all. While there are plenty of car rentals, there are few if any pure plane rental companies who do just that, rent out planes but are not coupled with other interests.

boscomantico wrote:

But I agree with MD here: it’s the pilots’ fault. They must get away from the flying schools after they get their license.

Yes exactly. And that means educating these people about the reality of ownership or syndicates. Too much rubbish is being told about both.

In the past years I’ve had numerous people who after getting their PPL were looking for an affordable simple airplane to fly, almost all were completely discouraged after asking around at the local airfield and also very much in the forums. Several of those are now owners, one is in a group of 3 with an Arrow II. There was a variety of airplanes involved, mostly straight Cherokees, Arrows and a few Mooneys but also a Bravo and a Cheetah. None of them broke the bank really. Those whom I’ve heard from again later are quite happy with their rides and several are club members at the same time too and take part in the fly outs and other stuff these clubs do.

Peter wrote:

Since PPL training is to a similar syllabus everywhere, and no nation has a monopoly on IQ and ability, it follows that if a club has no currency requirement then it’s pretty obvious that the members don’t fly anywhere…

No, it doesn’t follow. My club doesn’t have any currency requirements and people do fly “somewhere”.

The club I am a member in has a currency requirement for their renters to the extent of one check flight a year. Which, in the face that you have to do a instruction flight per 2 years per FCL anyhow is not over the top.

People fly if the conditions are right. That is, if they are happy to fly the airplanes provided, that the airplanes are available at a decent rate and that there is enough of them so people actually get to fly most of the time they want. People will fly if the club treats them as valued human beings and customers, not useful idiots whose right is to pay the membership dues and otherwise do what they are told.

If there is one thing I’ve learned since I was voted into the board of another association (aviation related but not a flying club, at least not yet) it is that as a board member, instructor, mechanic, secretary, in short what ever function you have, your job is to SERVE the membership so that the club as such can thrive and progress . The job is NOT to behave in a “it’s good to be the king” fashion and to impose whatever whim your board comes up with onto the people who pay for the club to exist.

Of course the same thing goes for anyone who has any sort of responsibility over others. Unfortunately, a lot of people tend to forget that. I learnt a lot about this working together with people who were interested in the times of the American Civil War and behaved the part. Their normal way to sign any sort of message was “RYOS” which stands for “Respectfully, your obedient servant”. I’ve personally seen letters written by commanding generals of that aera to people way below their rank or to civilians such as relatives of people killed under their command. It may look weird today, but it does kind of bring the message across. Quite a few managers of today might want to remember that… they serve their organisation, not their pocket or ego.

Peter wrote:

However this digression into mandatory “club” checks for renters supports my original point quite well i.e. the requirements scale pretty well with the perceived risk. Since PPL training is to a similar syllabus everywhere, and no nation has a monopoly on IQ and ability, it follows that if a club has no currency requirement then it’s pretty obvious that the members don’t fly anywhere…

To be honest, your original point makes no sense, because it follows a line of thought based on a reality that does not exist. Hence, it’s a “UK thing only” as mentioned by almost everyone. That’s the only way your original point makes some sense, because the reality you describe is alien to us, to me at least