Aviathor wrote:
A lot of clubs in France have a 90 day currency requirement. And I am sure it is the case in Norway too. IIRC both clubs at Kjeller (ENKJ) had that requirement when I was a member there.
The only thing we have is a club PFT each year. For microlight it is a requirement to have a check ride every 2 years + safety meeting to keep the license. IMO check rides is a good way of adopting the bad habits the instructor has acquired during the last 30 years. For someone who tries to stay up to date himself, and/or have a larger playing ground than the one single club, it is often nothing but an irritating experience. If these check rides were done with professional pilots instead, it would be 10x more meaningful, but not very realistic. Even done with other instructors from other clubs or experienced normal pilots, it would be more meaningful, and this is realistic.
Peter wrote:
So there is a large % of 10-20hr/year pilots
Indeed. The reason is that most get their PPL in their 20s, then life hits them with ambitions at work, kids, house etc, and they either stop flying altogether or hang in there flying the absolute minimum required. This doesn’t normally change until they are 35-50, and the ones left (1/2, 1/3, 1/4, 1/10, 2-3 ??) are typically the ones that starts really flying. Lots of exceptions of course. Others never get their finger out even starting PPL before reaching 35-50. These are a bit dangerous IMO, because those people easily get into leading roles in the club without having the slightest bit of experience of what this is all about. They readily accept suggestions from the instructors, and instructors want to fly as much as possible.
The US outlet from which I rented 2 weeks ago has a 60 day rule on the School’s planes.
The club (I forgot that one) in Portugal has a 6 month rule on the club’s planes
Some amount seems sensible, but the 28 days is often too short of a gap. At the club where I’d fly a lot, you could get “Green carded” and that eliminated (/ doubled only according to some people) that requirement.
Anyone who thinks currency rules for renting aircraft aren’t required has obviously never had to experience the standard of some PPLs I have had to ‘refresh’ during these flights!
I do know how low the standard of the average 10-20 hour renter pilot is. But still:
Two months ago a renter wrote off one of my training assets on a landaway and that has cost me months of training hours and revenue.
Do you really believe that if you had flown once with him previously, the mishap would not have happened? Or that it would not have happened to a very current pilot? We see these reports ever do often.
LeSving wrote:
The only thing we have is a club PFT each year.
You’re right. It comes back to me now. In Norway it was the annual Periodic Flight Training requirement.
In France the 3 clubs I have been a member of all required that I had flown the particular model aircraft in the last 90 days in order to be allowed to fly as PIC. They even made a distinction between DR400-120, -160 and -180.
Aviathor wrote:
What is worse is that in some clubs the 90-day requirement applies to each airplane model. So if you have not flown a C172 in the last 90 days, you have to do a training sortie with an instructor on the C172.
There are variants. Some are reasonable some not. There is the legal 90 day class rating rule for taking pax within that class. Then there are clubs which say xx days in THEIR C172, not just any, others say xx days with any plane of theirs and so on. A 90 day rule for specific airplane types may be reasonable for low time pilots. I had it as well for while but we abandoned it after all our pilots had some experience on the airplane.
28 days is in most cases simply ridiculous and has no justification whatsoever other than owner’s right to impose what ever they want… of couse customers have the right to choose a less restrictive organisation.
Balliol wrote:
Anyone who thinks currency rules for renting aircraft aren’t required has obviously never had to experience the standard of some PPLs I have had to ‘refresh’ during these flights!
Well. We have in place EASA part FCL which states what the minimum requirements are in terms of keeping and revalidating your license. Amongst these is the famous EASA Training Flight bianually, basically close to what the Americans call the bi-annual flight review. Instructors do have the possibility to assess people during this de-facto check flight and should do so.
Balliol wrote:
Yes I try to encourage fly outs and touring, but there is a reality that I need aircraft availability to keep the (intensive) training programme flowing and I simply can’t afford for aircraft to sit on the ground somewhere else, or worse get stuck. Two months ago a renter wrote off one of my training assets on a landaway and that has cost me months of training hours and revenue. For some clubs that could be financial game over.
That is exactly why renting is to the most part for people who want to do day trips or burger runs when they rent from organisations such as yours. So why not support ownership for people who want more and support them in the same way? It can still make sense to be a club member if i.e. they get FI support when they need it, support with fly outs (and the chance to take part in those done by the club if any) and possibly even CAMO their planes with the club. Such a program might be attractive for owners who find the club’s regimes and restrictions to restrictive but do not have the time or will to deal with all the formalities of ownership. And, on the other hand, a club which has such privately owned planes available may as well resort to renting one of them in if they have a shortage of planes, such as you had.
Organisations such as one Balliol writes about are clearly focused on training, not on renting out. That is fine if they then also are ready to cut loose their pilots once they reach the license. Nobody stays with their driving school after passing the license, why do pilots think they are so dependent?
Another thing I have been thinking of doing is to possibly create a network or a “club” of sorts with affordable rental airplanes all around, each owned by an owner at a specific place but being under a common organisation for renting out overcapacity. A club like that might be very interesting for a lot of people, also if they want to rent somewhere else for a change, i.e. while on a vaccation someplace.
That is essentially what PlusOne, WVFC etc. do. It wouldn’t work in Europe since most owners do not want to rent out their beloved aircraft to unkonwn people, not even if it works out financially. In the US, there are more people owning an aircraft as a rather unemotional asset. In those conditions, it works.
Lots of people have done a lease-back to a school but only with planes which they don’t mind being shagged – because they soon will be. I did this 2002-2006; various issues I wrote about previously. I avoided the shagging bit but at the cost of not enough customers.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
28 days is in most cases simply ridiculous and has no justification whatsoever other than owner’s right to impose what ever they want… of couse customers have the right to choose a less restrictive organisation.
No its not. One pilot in particular I was dying to fly with and I had to wait until he was out of the 28 days currency before I could fly with him. And i was very pleased I did as he wasn’t safe. If customers aren’t happy with it then I am more than happy for them to go elsewhere. I don’t take the piss and I don’t even charge pilots when it comes to club currency check outs. If I think they are safe after one circuit than thats all it takes. On the other hand there was another guy and it took 15 hours and I didn’t charge him a penny for my time.
mcrdriver wrote:
Currency could not have been the issue but it must have been something quite negligent to trigger something like that in front of his parents..
Actaully the PPL FI that I work alondside had done about 5 hours with him he then refused to fly with him any more and said I had to.
I got a bit suspicous when he used aileron rather than rudder on the take off roll and it didn’t get any better after that.
To be honest this was no surprise to me I only had to be told the name of the ATO where he did the training.
Another thing I have been thinking of doing is to possibly create a network or a “club” of sorts with affordable rental airplanes all around, each owned by an owner at a specific place but being under a common organisation for renting out overcapacity. A club like that might be very interesting for a lot of people, also if they want to rent somewhere else for a change, i.e. while on a vaccation someplace.
I found a club at my future base, Hannover EDDV, which seems to do just that:
http://www.aviators-hannover.de/flugzeuge/ (in German)
The link shows a list of their fleet, which is quite diverse.
