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Portugal imposes carbon tax on GA

Jujupilote wrote:

There is no fundamental right to fly, as there is no right to drive. Otherwise we wouldn’t have licenses.

I used to believe that as well, but this is not correct. Not anywhere in EASA land in fact.

We have public roads, and we have “public” airspaces and we have registered (road legal) cars and certified aircraft. To drive a registered car on a public road, you need a license. By the same (legal) logic, to fly a certified aircraft in “public” airspace, you need a pilot license.

There simply cannot be a fundamental not-right to not fly and drive, and there isn’t. If you where the only person left in the world, or one of very few, no legal entity can prevent you from grabbing an airplane and fly or grab a car and drive. You cannot use the same logic on for instance killing another person, because then you enter into ethical/religious stuff and into the very essence of being a human being, as well as the meaning/validity of rights in the first place. There are no such issues with flying or driving. Obviously there is a fundamental right to fly and drive, and it’s no different than the right to wear shoes, or wake up when you want to in the morning.

My PPL gives me the right to fly a certified aircraft, and to fly it in controlled airspace, and to use public airport. But I also fly ULs, and I need no license to fly that UL in uncontrolled airspace or to land it on private airports. That right just exists. However, the society/government is not stupid in it’s effort to control it’s citizens and make the society a “tidy and nice” place for everyone. What the society require is a proof of competence. The society (police, government, insurance companies etc.) requires that I somehow can document that I have the competence to fly an aircraft without making disasters. There is no license to fly an UL, but there is a proof of competence.

Same shit, different wrappings perhaps, but there are legal differences. One of those differences is you are legally (and insurance vise) much more protected when flying a certified aircraft with a license then you are flying a UL with a proof of competence. Flying a UL is for all intents and purposes equivalent with high risk sports, like skydiving, rafting and so on. Flying a certified aircraft is equivalent with driving a car. Another thing is that with a PPL and a certified aircraft, you have the right to use controlled airspace, and ATC cannot prevent you. With an UL the ATC gives us the permission to fly in “their” space, and can in principle kick us out for no reason (not that they will, but the possibility is there). On the other hand, the license can be taken from me, and with it the right. They can take my proof of competence, but not my actual competence and not my right. In that sense it’s legally much more “safe”. I can simply go to Sweden and a get Swedish proof of competence in no time, I cannot do that with my EASA license if it’s taken away from me

Military pilots don’t have licenses either. They also only have proof of competence. In reality it is the license that is the oddball here, but it’s practical when it comes to international stuff. A license according to a standard, like ICAO is a good thing when travelling around.

The elephant is the circulation

Fernando wrote:

I’m Portuguese. General aviation in Portugal has been a nightmare for many decades. It starts with intermittent controlled airspace and now ends with this policy.

As I say, Portugal is great for a two week holiday. Full stop.

Can you elaborate? Specifically for an IFR pilot?


sedatedokc wrote:

Can you elaborate? Specifically for an IFR pilot?

For IFR pilots is ok(ish) as air traffic control will route you. But you’ll be limited to just a few airports with instrument approaches.

If you are a VFR pilot, then you need to check (daily) which airspace is restricted. Portugal is a small country, but despite our airforce having a tiny fleet, they take a vast chunk of the most interesting airspace.

EGSU, United Kingdom

I am in shock. it is going to have a significant impact on the safety of pilots and passengers.
LPCS, one of the few places in Portugal where you could keep current on night operations increased the prices that makes it unbereable for small GA.

We will start to see transponders off, no reported flights, landing on strange places, and so on.

Despite not being in Portugal for long periods of time, in line of the last 7 years political line, which goes around prohibition and taxation, I cannot say that I am surprised.

It only reinforces my previous idea to move away from my country.

LPSR, Portugal

lmsl1967 wrote:

LPCS, one of the few places in Portugal where you could keep current on night operations increased the prices that makes it unbereable for small GA.

I can’t find any source of new prices at LPCS – the only available at airport’s web site is this 2021 price list. There’s no data in our database and I don’t remember how much I paid there in 2019. From this price list it’s obvious who’s the main target for fleecing – usual non-commercial GA aircraft:
- up to 1 ton – parking per day per ton 5.95€
- 1 to 3 ton – parking per day per ton 8.90€
- over 3 ton – parking per day per ton 5.29€

However, I don’t find it too expensive with landing at 8€ per ton during daytime and just below 12€ after sunset. I don’t know handling pricing because it could change complete picture.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

According to Skydemon, the fees for a typical stopover are roughly are 300€, and this is since the middle of 2021.

I previously asked here if anyone knew what they were smoking, but nobody replied.

Last Edited by boscomantico at 08 May 12:08
Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

Just spoke with a group of aviators in Portugal and they going to file a judicial injunction to stop the government regulation on that taxation. AOPA in Portugal is dead. Crowdfunding will be the option to pay the lawyers.

LPCS, Yager knows better about the taxes, from what I know, handling as become mandatory.

LPSR, Portugal

from what I know, handling as become mandatory

AIP says the same for non-based aircrafts. It wasn’t mandatory in 2019. So it’s the same scam that’s more and more often in Southern parts of Europe.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

…With the difference that this is not an airline airport that wants to outprice GA.

It’s a GA only airport, that is outpricing anything considered small GA.

I guess that they are happy focussing only on big GA, thus halving the numbers of movements, yet increasing the yields with less work….

Mainz (EDFZ) & Egelsbach (EDFE), Germany

It is accounting stupidity, because 99% of airport costs are fixed costs so every €50 or whatever they get from some SR22 goes straight to their bottom line.

So how does this carry on?

Simple. Lack of accountability to whoever is funding it (at best) or corruption (quite common in s. Europe, whether moral (lunches, etc) or financial (backhanders)).

And the laziest people gravitate to the jobs which are funded with the least transparency. Like trade union leaders were always the laziest fattest most useless least reliable and most troublesome workers; now you find the same types at airports in the south.

I believe anything actually. At one well known airport (not Portugal) the manager wanted a gift, say €300, if you wanted to park there. The gifts became known on the internet (no sh*t Sherlock) so the manager moved to using the handling agent to simply charge extra and put the money to one side for him. Much safer. Years later, the “skimming” scheme in the said country was formalised by Fraport and the manager lived out his retirement in a nice villa

The long term problem, for all of us, is that this is not sustainable, because it is only a matter of time before some high level bean counter gets the top job, notices there is one airline flight per week (€1000), and shuts the place down.

AOPA in Portugal is dead.

“AOPA” is dead in Europe…

Crowdfunding will be the option to pay the lawyers.

Been tried.

I previously asked here if anyone knew what they were smoking, but nobody replied.

Probably because Portugal is a long way from most of the action. And a lot of people just pay. Avgas was €600, landing was €300, not too bad.

Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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