Mooney_Driver wrote:
The problem is that if the Republicans gain control of Congress, military aid for Ukraine may stop dead
Why? AFAIK, support for Ukraine is bipartisan in the USA (which is also the case in the UK, now Jeremy Corbyn is ancient history).
“Russian measure” is hell. Where he walked – the ruins of suffering and death. Thousands of burials of innocent victims. In almost every settlement, the occupiers set up torture chambers.
Torture, screams and blood. Andriy from Kharkiv region – he started talking about his experiences only after the liberation of his town by our fighters. Experienced paratroopers-hunters are horrified by the stories of the locals. Andriy agreed to come to the yard, which brought him so much pain.
Five days of torture, daily beatings, torture and humiliation. Then more than a month of hard labor. This is because he was once a contractor and served in the Ukrainian army. And it’s a miracle, he says, that he survived. People like him were beaten to death by non-humans. The prisoner’s confession is in our material.
This is nothing new. It’s been standard in 3rd World wars where life has zero value (central Africa, etc). Russia should never be allowed to rejoin the “civilised order”.
But Russia is different. Here we have a country which has nukes (the “monkey with a grenade” problem) and lots of natural resources for buying “friendships” with. And plenty of 3rd World sentiment against the West, historically fuelled, helps them along, although this won’t help.
Can anyone think of a way forward; say the next 10 years?
Russia continues to fling stuff at Kyiv, apparently targeting infrastructure but seeming to hit things fairly indiscriminately including housing.
The media describes them as ‘missiles’ but pictures are showing small holes in the side of residential blocks and small fires. They have clearly not been caused by anything substantial – not any kind of cruise missile and nothing with a big payload. More likely some form of rocket artillery or these suicide drones?
Why should the Ukrainians not launch things at Moscow or other Russian cities? Escalation? Hardly, it would only be returning in kind what Russia is doing. The indiscriminate stuff is pretty pointless militarily though, but they could target military and logistical infrastructure. No doubt the west counsels against it, again ‘escalation’…
On the other hand, maybe ordnance landing in Moscow is what is needed to force regime change? Indiscriminate shelling of residential areas doesn’t affect Ukrainian morale one iota, but it might well affect Russian morale – if there is any left. Compare WW2, where bombing of cities had little to no effect on the morale of those fighting a war of survival, but devastated the morale of those fighting a war of conquest.
Looks like the clock is about to strike midnight on Article 5 being invoked. Hopefully cool heads prevail.
pilotrobbie wrote:
Looks like the clock is about to strike midnight on Article 5 being invoked. Hopefully cool heads prevail.
I can’t imagine that anyone in NATO would seriously view this as a deliberate military attack on Poland. It is clearly an accident on Russia’s part. Why would Russia target a Polish farm?
Russia continues to fling stuff at Kyiv
Most of it gets shot down – this is today’s. But not 100%, unfortunately.
Why should the Ukrainians not launch things at Moscow or other Russian cities?
I think the US has set that condition. But Ukraine is quietly getting better stuff. Only a few days ago it came out that they’ve got the 140km HIMARS. I don’t know why they can’t get the 500km+ ones, with the nav geofenced to work only within Ukraine. Maybe the US thinks the Ukrainians are smart enough to bypass that 
So UKR has to do Russia in a deniable manner…
alioth wrote:
Why? AFAIK, support for Ukraine is bipartisan in the USA
Well, before the mid terms some GOP exponents said otherwise. Just as well it went as it did.
Peter wrote:
Russia should never be allowed to rejoin the “civilised order”.
Remember when the same was said about Germany?
pilotrobbie wrote:
Looks like the clock is about to strike midnight on Article 5 being invoked. Hopefully cool heads prevail.
Would be the second world war that starts with an attack on Poland if I remember right….
Airborne_Again wrote:
It is clearly an accident on Russia’s part. Why would Russia target a Polish farm?
To see how far they can go?
Question will be, where were those missiles fired from and what was the target? And why did they end up where they did?
Mooney_Driver wrote:
Question will be, where were those missiles fired from and what was the target? And why did they end up where they did?
Similar like a dron that fell in my neighbourhood in Zagreb at the beginning of the war in March. Target and purpose are still unknown as well as who launched it.
Emir wrote:
Similar like a dron that fell in my neighbourhood in Zagreb at the beginning of the war in March. Target and purpose are still unknown as well as who launched it.
Right. Quite possibly because of the implications of Article 4. Which does not mean nobody knows.
Remember when the same was said about Germany?
The US made the correct judgement that Germany could become a normal country again. Russia never will be, short of a “revolution”. Also W Germany was a “simple” case, having been fully invaded, and no nukes (same with Japan).
Russia can never be invaded, which also means Nuremberg-style trials are impossible. So no justice for what they have done. That was how the “reckoning” was done in Germany, and the rest was swept under the carpet in the name of peace. In Japan, even less so; even Hirohito remained in the throne as a part of the deal with the US.
Target and purpose are still unknown as well as who launched it.
It probably was tracked all the way but it would be normal to cover that up to avoid stirring up emotions, since it was obviously a cockup. The US has already said they track the hypersonic missiles all the way in, so they definitely tracked these.
