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Russian invasion of Ukraine

We have some special rules for this thread, in addition to the normal EuroGA Guidelines. The basic one is that EuroGA will not be a platform for pro Russian material. For that, there are many sites on the internet. No anti Western posts. Most of us live in the "West" and enjoy the democratic and material benefits. Non-complying posts will be deleted and, if the poster is a new arrival, he will be banned.

You’re more compassionate than me. I’d just ban him and delete his post.
We don’t need this kind here.

EIWT Weston, Ireland

I am sure JP Instruments, for whom he is the German importer (100ms on google reveals all) are enjoying this

And indeed his computer has no SHIFT key, anywhere…

Back on the topic, I am amazed that almost 100% of the more advanced British military hardware (Storm Shadow) actually seems to work when it comes out of stores. In the Falklands, 1982, they found that only about 50% of missiles weren’t duds (reportedly). And I am sure American hardware is even better. The other notable thing is that most of the advanced stuff sent to Ukraine is ~ 25 years old (NLAW, Javelin, etc). Makes one wonder what current stuff is like…

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

dublinpilot wrote:

dublinpilot
18-May-23 10:17
1594

esteban can I ask what your connection with aviation is? Obviously you don’t have to have a connection to aviation to follow the forums.

It just seems somewhat ‘unusual’ that someone who doesn’t have an obvious connection with aviation would hang out here and not participate in aviation topics, but as soon as a post comes up on Russia you’re instantly on it.

It might seem that you’re here to simply put out Russian statements rather than an interest in GA. I’m NOT saying that that is why you are here; rather just pointing out there is certainly an element of that impression coming through (at least to me). I don’t think that in itself would be against the forum guidelines. I’m just curious as to what your interest is (GA or Russia). Is it principally Russia rather than GA and you simply come here to counter what you see as an anti-Russian bias?

Uff, sorry for late answer, I have been traveling (Menorca is beautiful, life is too short to spend the time on internet forums).

I am what could be called ‘aviation enthusiast’, with general interest in aviation and most things flying. There has been a time of my life when it seemed possible I will get into actual flying (most likely some microlight), but family/financial situation changed and that is now a very distant prospect. Lurking at Euroga convinced me that actual flying is even more money intensive that I hoped for, and the general enviroment (regulations/maintenance/hangarage, possibly even personalities involved) is rather frustrating, especially if you are on the lower-side of disposable-income spectrum (at least, when considering flying) and without hands-on experience of airplane maintenance.

As such, it is no surprising that I don’t have much to offer regarding the typical GA topics here (dealing with 50+ years old engine and avionics technology issues). I am mostly interested in newer technologies, hoping for an enabler for simpler/more affordable flying, but obviously that is not going to happen in my lifetime.

Regarding my participation in this topic, and why here and not elsewhere: Generally, the discussion on euroga, even on hot topics (whether aviation-related hot, e.g. airplane parashutes, or socially-hot, e.g. brexit) has been relatively civilized, fact-oriented and nuanced (mostly thanks to peter’s moderation, but also participant’s intelectual level). Given that in current times it is almost impossible to have rational and nuanced discussion on this topic, I hoped it would be possible here. In the beginning, it looked so … however, eventually even here everything became only black and white, and if you question the prevailing western narrative, you are immediately labeled Putin’s troll. I have no intention of wasting Peter’s time and breaking this forum, so nowadays I generally try to abstain (although I must admit Peter’s obvious hatred of all-things russian does trigger me, I apologize for that, I am only human).

I would be interested to rationally discuss what are the future paths the situation in Ukraine can/will develop (I think there is too much self-delusion/wishful thinking, which would ultimately lead to worse outcome for everybody), but I have mostly resigned to the fact that even here that is not really possible, so I mostly don’t bother.

Given the Ukraine’s ongoing offensive and upcoming NATO meeting, one would think that now is a good time for such discussion.

Slovakia

Peter’s obvious hatred of all-things russian

I was there in 1968 when their tanks rolled in, so obviously I am not going to be their #1 fan. And now, what a surprise, they are at it again. Russia/USSR is an empire defined by expansion (it has never been a normal country content with just living within its borders, like most are), war, violence, rape, pillage… and their population, brainwashed over a century, will ensure that no democracy will ever be successfully established.

And Slovakia has traditionally been close to Russia/USSR – via proximity, culture and trade. So you and I are not likely to agree.

future paths the situation in Ukraine can/will develop

There is only one possible solution: a military defeat of Russia. Anything lesser will just be telling Putin he can go anywhere and keep his spoils.

We aren’t going to get a 1945 Germany / Japan unconditional surrender (simply because Russia will not be eliminated as a military power) so there will have to be some negotiation, and I think Russia will keep the eastern end. This will be needed anyway for the Putin-lovers to gradually relocate themselves to. It’s gonna take a lot of free washing machines though… The lubrication needed for UKR to accept that will be massive reconstruction (by the West of course, so loads of nice business for the usual firms, mostly in Germany), fast track EU membership (i.e. loads of money), fast track NATO membership, and UKR getting a new and powerful military because Putin will have another go if he can.

But with the UKR offensive only just starting, and going quite well, this is not a time to talk about that.

There are other opinions obviously, like Mr Fuhrermeister above, but here we cater for those which assume that Ukraine should exist as a country afterwards.

Is this one of the rare ‘good dams’ given its role in keeping Crimea green, and that it has probably stopped making much methane? Will it be reconstructed in time, or will it be decided that the new status quo should be left alone?

The company which owns the dam has said they can’t repair it because it has got somehow shifted off-axis or some such. They would have to rebuild it. I didn’t understand the details.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

greetings from dubai
ingo fuhrmeister/BAC Digital

@Peter, is it allowed by forum policy to call idiots idiots or we refrain of such stuff?

And we have again this guy esteban with his useless posts writing his unimportant opinions probably in wish to test the level of politeness of people posting in the forum.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

One should not get personal, hence my reply to Mr Fuhrermeister above. I doubt we will see him again; it was a windup from the same place from where the majority of “interesting characters” came from over the years, arriving when one famous pilot came here and then leaving when he left, a rinse and repeat cycle every year

And forum policy, posted further back, is not supporting Russia.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

One should not get personal, hence my reply to Mr Fuhrermeister above.

I can’t believe a normal person is able to want for country to be run down and people enslaved. This can be written only by sociopath and psychopath.

LDZA LDVA, Croatia

One should not get personal, hence my reply to Mr Fuhrermeister above

I shall keep that in mind, Mr. Fuhrermeister

The elephant is the circulation
ENVA ENOP ENMO, Norway

Peter wrote:

I was there in 1968 when their tanks rolled in, so obviously I am not going to be their #1 fan.

Very understandable. However, I will gently note that expressing hatred not against the Soviet/Russian regime, but against everything russian really undermines the effort of the russian opposition that genuinely tries to move the Russia in the right direction. This forum is inconsequential, but cultivating such attitude in the general public does not improve future prospects – neither for Russia, nor for anybody that has to deal with Russia, whether willingly or not.

Peter wrote:

And Slovakia has traditionally been close to Russia/USSR – via proximity, culture and trade. So you and I are not likely to agree.

Culturally/politically, Slovakia is on this line:
Czech Republic – Slovakia -———————————————————————————— Ukraine – Russia
Anybody who has been to these countries and/or knows their history understands that quite well.

In Slovakia there is a great multitude of opinions, with plenty of russophobes that gleefully welcome any news of dead Russians. As always, the extremes are the most visible. I don’t think I represent the typical Slovak position, if ever such thing exists.

Also: I have no delusions to change your stance – all I am saying is “Don’t get insulated in your information bubble, there is a risk of great dissapointment if you don’t face the reality but live in self-delusion/wishful thinking.” The fact that that is considered here as pro-russian stance just shows how much has the Overton window shifted.

Peter wrote:

There is only one possible solution: a military defeat of Russia.

That is not a rational discussion of future possibilities, that is your statement of your preferences how you wish the future will be. You can argue why that is a good outcome, and discuss what to do to achieve it, but such discussion has little to do with the situation on ground and/or the actual most likely outcomes.

Peter wrote:

But with the UKR offensive only just starting, and going quite well

Hm, allow me to disagree here – a couple of months of such ‘doing quite well’ might utterly exhaust (such an euphemism!) majority of UKR’s western trained reserves and equipment, without really achieving a strategic difference. So far, after a week of heavy fighting, it looks more like Uhledar in reverse. Anyway, we will see soon enough. I hope I am wrong.

Emir wrote:

I can’t believe a normal person is able to want for country to be run down and people enslaved.

I can’t really speak for Mr Fuhrermeister, he indeed seem a bit out of it, however as far as the moderates calling for ceasefire and peace talks (a.k.a. putin-appeasers, i.e. the majority of the world population): 1) nobody is calling for people enslavement, we get closer to it (more conscription) by prolonging the fighting 2) the longer the fighting is going on, the more the UKR is being run down and more people are dying.

Is Ukraine really better-off now than it was at the end of Nov 22? Is it better off now than it was in Apr 22? Would it be better off in a couple of months after its offensive reaches its conclusion and untold thousands of people are killed on both sides? What is the price of territorial km^2 vs a human life? Or is it more about strategically weakening Russia and the Ukraine is just a road kill? To me, such arithmetic can be done only by sociopath and psychopath.

Last Edited by esteban at 13 Jun 17:02
Slovakia

That is not a rational discussion of future possibilities, that is your statement of your preferences how you wish the future will be. You can argue why that is a good outcome, and discuss what to do to achieve it, but such discussion has little to do with the situation on ground and/or the actual most likely outcomes.

You were asked a while ago how you would like to deal with this Russian invasion, and instead of replying you vanished for a while.

Your posts are a transparent pro-Russian stance dressed up as a desire to debate the topic.

The reality is really very simple. There are exactly two options

  • Russia gets out of Ukraine
  • We have a very nasty precedent-setting situation to deal with long-term

Is Ukraine really better-off now than it was at the end of Nov 22? Is it better off now than it was in Apr 22? Would it be better off in a couple of months after its offensive reaches its conclusion and untold thousands of people are killed on both sides? What is the price of territorial km^2 vs a human life? Or is it more about strategically weakening Russia and the Ukraine is just a road kill? To me, such arithmetic can be done only by sociopath and psychopath.

That is BS. Freedom has a value.

The “strategically weakening Russia” is an old anti-American argument which is invalid because Russia will always rebuild its military, after a while. This cannot be prevented. All that can be done – and will have to be done – is a military containment of Russia so it cannot have another go.

undermines the effort of the russian opposition that genuinely tries to move the Russia in the right direction

They have been at it since ~1920, with no success.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom
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