I suspect it’s “because we never have done that, and we are afraid of change that makes it easier for those we regulate” (regulation only seems to ratchet in favour of the regulator’s convenience). We issue car drivers licences on the spot (when you pass your car or motorcycle test, you are immediately issued a temporary licence by the examiner) – it really can’t be that difficult to do that for flying, too.
Airborne_Again wrote:
Criminal records. I don’t know exactly what they are looking for, but I guess that if you have a driving under the influence conviction, you may be in trouble.
Wow. We have nothing like that.
Is it post-9/11 stuff, or has it always been that way?
gallois wrote:
It is issued immediately or a piece of paper is. The examiner records it on SIGIBEL and the proper licence arrives in the post about 2 days later. At least that’s what happens here.
Not for adding an instrument rating for example. If you do it abroad, it can take months before you can actually use your new rating.
Peter wrote:
It’s probably a big factor in so many people giving up.
Do we really think this is true?
I find it hard to believe someone who has just finished a series of expensive and demanding training lessons, and is on a high after passing, would decide to give up flying simply because they have to wait a month or two to get a paper licence. In the meantime they can fly solo with instructor sign-off anyway. It doesn’t seem a big deal to me.
My instrument rating was added immediately.
SIGIBEL is an online system for storing your licencing information. You have access to it as do examiners and to a lesser extent so do instructors. After a flight test eg Instrumant rating the examiner goes online enters your pass along with his qualifications. He can then print off an attestation which you put in your log book and allows you to fly immediately.
Its the same for.revalidations etc. When it’s a new licence the information is flagged automatically, the licence printed out.and posted off. I received a new licence in 2 days.
The only time it took a little longer was when I needed to add updated ELP. It didn’t go.on SIGIBEL so I had to send the attestation to the DGAC myself. Got the licence back new licence ELP added in 4 days.
alioth wrote:
We issue car drivers licences on the spot (when you pass your car or motorcycle test, you are immediately issued a temporary licence by the examiner) – it really can’t be that difficult to do that for flying, too.
Playing devil’s advocate for a moment, I can see why some might be in favour of an administratively-driven ‘cooling off period’ after passing the test.
The actual real-world competence (both flying and decision-making) of newly-minted UK PPLs is highly variable. Schools and clubs will be aware of plenty who somehow get through the test by not making any major mistakes for two hours (same with car test, over 45 mins, and many take several goes to achieve this), and plenty who are helped through by sympathetic examiners. The way schools/clubs hire examiners for PPL tests in the UK is not helpful: failing too many, especially if they are good customers or seen as having the right attitude, will result in the school/club hiring someone else to do the tests. Conversely sometimes they just want a difficult customer out of their hair – it is not at all unknown for a school to get someone through the test and then (quietly or forcefully, as the case may be) suggest that they go and do their flying somewhere else.
Schools want people to pass because they want to deliver on the product they’ve sold them. Whether they actually want to rent these individuals an aircraft afterwards is another matter. The almost certainly don’t want the more excitable/variable of their customers passing their test in the morning and then in the afternoon loading an income-generating asset to MTOW with excited friends and going off to do silly things. See the G-CIIR accident report, which while not a rental, illustrates the sort of thing that schools worry about with new PPLs.
These aren’t my views on the matter – I agree that an immediate temporary chit ought to be issued. But I can see why people might favour it not happening, for a variety of reasons.
NicR wrote:
Do we really think this is true?I find it hard to believe someone who has just finished a series of expensive and demanding training lessons, and is on a high after passing, would decide to give up flying simply because they have to wait a month or two to get a paper licence. In the meantime they can fly solo with instructor sign-off anyway. It doesn’t seem a big deal to me.
Well, that is a big financial commitment, so after you pass you have two choices:
1. Pay for the school and log it as P/US / P/UT or.
2. Wait and log it as P1.
Most do 2 (some might do other training while waiting) so that this time goes towards P1 XC time, at least my observation. And it could easily be 3 months – 1 month to sort out all omission and mistakes in the paperwork and 2 months with the CAA.
I’d say it IS a factor, although not sure what %% of pilots will stop flying…
Graham wrote:
Is it post-9/11 stuff, or has it always been that way?
It has always been that way. The relevant part of the Swedish legislation reads (in translation)
A student pilot licence or a pilot licence may only be issued to a person who holds a valid medical certificate and who, in view of his or her personal circumstances, can be considered suitable to hold a student pilot licence or a pilot licence.
The assessment of personal circumstances shall relate to the applicant’s reliability in terms of sobriety and the applicant’s ability to respect the rules of aviation and to show the consideration, responsibility and judgement required of a holder of a student pilot licence or a pilot licence.
The provisions of the first subparagraph shall also apply when a student pilot licence or a pilot licence is to be renewed or a pilot licence is to be extended, endorsed or recognised
So there is nothing specifically terrorism related there.
Airborne_Again wrote:
shall relate to the applicant’s reliability in terms of sobriety
Wow.
Is that something not quite translating from the Swedish, or is there genuinely a regulation stating that a person must be reliable in terms of their abstention from intoxication via* alcohol?
* In the same way that ‘professional’ is now mis-used to mean ‘good’ rather than referring to being paid, the words sober and sobriety are increasingly taken to mean abstention from alcohol completely, rather than simply the opposite of intoxicated.
Graham wrote:
Is that something not quite translating from the Swedish, or is there genuinely a regulation stating that a person must be reliable in terms of their abstention from intoxication via* alcohol?
The Swedish word (“nykterhet”) literally means abstention from alcohol. In this context it doesn’t mean total abstention but being able to control your drinking, e.g. not being an alcoholic and not driving under the influence.
