Regulation EU2020/877 (all EU airports have Customs without PNR/PPR)

Pretty cool that intra EU and intra Schengen one just flies from anywhere to anywhere (well, except for Greece).

What’s up with the french customs + PN stuff? Is that some emergency law in place or what?

Greece, and bits of France And tempo this and that

But this topic is Customs, and I am not sure the above is being justified in terms of Customs (only). The Greek PoE issue is not related to Customs or Immigration.

I think this EU reg has unintended consequences which somebody didn’t think through properly, hence we are seeing all these rearguard actions.

Personally, I totally expected this to happen because

• it is a big hassle to provide Customs everywhere (obviously!)

• the Nothing to Declare rule means nothing because you still need to eyeball the Nothing to Declare channel, and pull out anybody who looks like a smuggler (disalowed cultural stereotypes omitted, like short curly hair, Peter O’Toole nose job, wearing a bed blanket with a plastic ring around the head, four wives, or any male with a ponytail, expensive clothes and a €30k PP watch, travelling alone, or any male travelling alone)

• due to the Germany+Italy Immigration-PN concession it is helpful to “brexit UK” which would definitely be unintended

What amazes me is that a reg of this astronomical “implementation magnitude” could have come such a long way, without somebody noticing the problems. Anybody who knows anything about the domestic political situation in, say, 3 or 4 obvious countries, would have realised it won’t fly.

It’s a long thread and probably somebody has come up with an explanation but I don’t really get it. With a lot of political cynicism I can think of some explanations but if it was me I still would not do it this way.

On customs, has anyone reported troubles for Switzerland to small airfields in EU post-2020?

I recall there was CH aircraft that got hit by VAT with presumption of import in Germany due to lack of PNR, this can’t happen now with that Zoll letter…

Obviously, the above can’t happen to aircraft having EU VAT paid by “construction” without PNR to any airfield

Aircraft VAT is the biggest financial uncertainty when flying Switzerland/EU, the rest is under 1h of Avgas and can be challenged

That was here and supposedly that can’t happen now.

It also can’t happen flying UK → EU – is that right?

The problem is interpretation… done further back. You can cycle across the CH → DE border on a cheap bike, but if you do it on a €5k bike, it isn’t clear. That was posted in Germany by a pilot who I think knows the rules. An aircraft? As has been posted in this thread many times, not many want to test it, because the law does not contain a specific exemption for private aircraft meeting the Nothing to Declare.

Until this is widely tested, we go around in circles.

ArcticChiller wrote:

If you are an EU resident or citizen and would like to help out, I would very much appreciate your help. Let’s draw it up and submit it together (or submit it via a GA association with its offices in an EU member state) — let me know in the thread or by private message and I’ll set up a chat, Discord or whatever is needed. Ideas and inputs are always welcome.

Hi Florian, did you get some help with this? Seems like a good idea. All progress depends on unreasonable people.

https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/536961-the-reasonable-man-adapts-himself-to-the-world-the-unreasonable

Any person may sign a petition, but only EU residents or citizens may submit a petition. Unfortunately, I just ran into this problem and can’t submit it myself. If you are an EU resident or citizen and would like to help out, I would very much appreciate your help. Let’s draw it up and submit it together (or submit it via a GA association with its offices in an EU member state) — let me know in the thread or by private message and I’ll set up a chat, Discord or whatever is needed. Ideas and inputs are always welcome.

Let’s do it. Link to Telegram group is here https://t.me/customspetition

I’m also in to help with the petition. Great initiative @ArcticChiller !

Here is how French Customs (or at least the Mulhouse directorate) is trying to solve the issue:

boscomantico wrote:

Here is how French Customs (or at least the Mulhouse directorate) is trying to solve the issue:

@boscomantico, sorry to be a pain, but could you paste a textual version? Or an extra addition with an English-autotranslated version?
Thanks a lot!

I used this to OCR it:

Bonjour,
Le code frontiéres Schengen (CFS) et l’arrété du 24 octobre 2017 relatif au franchissement des frontiéres par les personnes et les marchandises sur les
aérodromes précisent les modalités de franchissement, par les personnes, des frontiéres aériennes extérieures et intérieures de l’espace Schengen.
Seuls les aérodromes ayant la qualité de point de passage frontaliers (PPF) sont autorisés é recevoir des vols extra-Schengen.
Les frontiéres intérieures de l’espace Schengen peuvent étre franchies, en tout lieu, sans que des vérifications aux frontiéres soient effectuées sur les
personnes, quelle que soit leur nationalité.
L’article 9 de l‘arrété prévoit que les aérodromes qui n’ont pas la qualité de PPF peuvent recevoir des vols intra-Schengen sans qu‘aucune formalité liée au
contréle aux frontiéres des personnes ne soit requise.
La Suisse faisant partie de I’espace Schengen, tout aérodrome n‘ayant pas le statut de PPF peut accueillir des vols en provenance et :21 destination de ce
pays.
En cas de rétablissement des contréles aux frontiéres intérieures. des vérifications pourront étre réalisées sur les liaisons internes.
Par contre, I’arrété du 24 octobre 2017 (art.14) précise que le franchissement des frontiéres de I‘UE avec des marchandises n’est autorisé que dans les
aérodromes qualifiés d’aéroports Internationaux de I’Union. Les bagages sont considérés comme des marchandises.

Google translate:

Good morning,
The Schengen Borders Code (CFS) and the decree of 24 October 2017 relating to the crossing of borders by people and goods on the
aerodromes specify the procedures for people to cross the external and internal air borders of the Schengen area.
Only aerodromes with the status of border crossing point (PPF) are authorized to receive extra-Schengen flights.
The internal borders of the Schengen area can be crossed, at any place, without border checks being carried out on the borders.
people, regardless of their nationality.
Article 9 of the decree provides that aerodromes which do not have the quality of PPF can receive intra-Schengen flights without any formality related to the
border control of persons is required.
As Switzerland is part of the Schengen area, any aerodrome that does not have PPF status can accommodate flights from and to:21 destination of this area.
country.
In the event of re-establishment of internal border controls. checks may be carried out on the internal links.
On the other hand, the decree of 24 October 2017 (art.14) specifies that the crossing of EU borders with goods is only authorized in the
aerodromes qualified as International airports of the Union. Luggage is considered as goods.

Luggage is considered as goods.

Well, luggage = goods in all international travel (as does everything you carry including your watch) but doesn’t that completely nullify this whole “regulation”?

But that wording also suggests that your €50k PP watch is not “goods”.