intra-Schengen flights are allowed from all French airports subject to “no marchandise” (Art9 of law 2017), the PN is always obligatoire
if this were true, then every flight would require a PN, which clearly ins‘t the case.
if this were true, then every flight would require a PN, which clearly ins‘t the case.
For the rest of intra-Schengen (e.g. Belgium), you know the story…I was talking about Switzerland, it’s ok for all airports including ULM strips, for PNR the law state FPL to ATC with 1h is enough for Switzerland, however, customs expect that FPL to be emailed to them 24h in advance
It will be daft to fly from Switzerland to some strip in Germany, France, Belgium…with no PNR using a print of EU 2020/887, I am not sure where that sits on “pilot IQ scale”? it look way too naïve, it does not even work in big airports with temporary customs !!
…I was talking about Switzerland
ok. but the French law you refer to is from 2017, the new European law is from 2020. And it implicitly says that NO PN is needed for Switzerland flights.
And it implicitly says that NO PN is needed for Switzerland flights.
Is this the case today in Germany after Zoll notice on EU 2020/877? no PN is required from Switzerland for all German airports: those with permanent customs, temporary customs and no customs…
Yes France has not yet updated 2017 law to EU2020/887, altough, it already allow flights from Switzerland in every airport, we will see if PN requirement vanish? it does not sound to be the case according to customs: if I want to fly to some strip today from Switzerland they tell you it’s YES but they ask for notice and forms
we will see if PN requirement vanish? it does not sound to be the case according to customs
And that is what AC is trying to accomplish. To make Customs in countries other than Germany adhere to the law.
I misunderstood OP request, it’s about making zero PN to all airfields when coming from Switzerland rather than making all airfields OK for flights from Switzerland (maybe with PN)
I will ask if zero PN is now standard from Switzerland to Germany after that Zoll notice? my understanding you still have to comply with AIP AD2.3.2 in big airports from Switzerland
This point has been made and debated a number of times in this thread.
It’s amazing that so many EU countries are able to just ignore an EU directive and run their own rearguard action. One would think Brussels would be interested in that?
Snoopy wrote:
Maybe in Switzerland…
I’ve never seen that happen here but I know several people who got massive hassles in Southern European countries when being confronted with officials there. Push a sheet of law in their face and they will take it, tell you to wait until they can figure it out and then disappear until the next working day when they can find a translator and lawyer to tell them that it’s bona fide or not. And of course, in the past, there have been massive law suits against pilots who misread some form of what PPR is required where in Germany.
Yes, this new regulation should do away with most of this, but it does not guarantee that you will end up blocked over days until those in power will be told by someone in the know that they just blocked a crew for nothing.
Frans wrote:
As the Swiss are so precise on their regulations, there is no possible “go around” procedure, except for using customs airports without PNR requirements.
And there are not many left. Not even Zurich by now.
Which tells me from the Swiss perspective that Schengen for us has not brought much improvements in GA at all, particularly seeing how the new EU rule discussed here is snubbed by most countries. Ok, germany is a big one for us, particularly since there have been very nasty incidents involving customs in the past.
But to play the devil’s advocate here: Before we had Schengen and all inner European borders abolished, was it really any discussion that most airfields had customs? I recall flying to lots of places which most were 24/7 POE and there was NO need for PNR other than a flight plan, which was and is still necessary for cross border flights anyway. Today in many constellations flying has become so much more hassle, that one wonders what that unification actually did.
Yes; before about 2005 Brits used to fly to France regularly, anywhere, no PN, no forms, no GAR form either. Life was great. Pre-EU, post-EU.
Most of the crap started after about 2005.
I think a lot of useless people – who traditionally gravitate to badly organised large bodies because they can disappear in there while getting paid for doing nothing useful – discovered that the aviation sphere is a great place to work. It’s a Jurrasic world which vanished elsewhere in the 1990s. Heavily unionised, and the “safety” card is always available to fend off scrutiny. Salaries are high too, and the more you pay people the less they work and the more often they go on strike because losing a few days’ pay is unimportant.
