Silvaire wrote:
The ‘hospitals overflowing and other treatments delayed’ argument for unethical coercion has always been a red herring,
That red herring is currently keeping a friend of mine in Italy getting a cancer treatment. And it is happening in Switzerland too. Without the government having anything to do with it btw, or rather having failed to prevent it. Simply no capacity.
The other problem is that currently there is a massive sick out in many places, not only hospitals but not surprising there foremost, so even if they have beds they lack staff. Exhaustion from almost 2 years of constant physical and psychological overload plus quite a number now either sick from or in isolation because of positive covid tests.
172driver wrote:
There’s a much more straightforward solution to this problem.
Only it is no solution. No doc, no nurse and nobody else will ever implement that. And think about the consequences even IF this was implemented. Who will be next? Obese? Smokers? e.t.c. It is one of the “obvious” solutions which people come up with out of frustration or anger. While understandable, I still think it is wrong to descend to that level.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
While understandable, I still think it is wrong to descend to that level.
It is not understandable. The full vaxxed are now beginning to realise having been fed that the vaccine was the saviour, that in essence they have been had. Lied to, again..The un vaxxed are standing defiant stating well we did tell you. Fear, and real palpable fear, driven by our totally mindless and frankly growing insane elected politicians, has created angst and division. What all true dystopian tyrants wish for….
Meanwhile populations are self isolating with a sniffle, causing massive workforce and economic damage. Whilst in the UK the noble class system are awarding true despots, Knighthoods. It is like Monty Pythons Flying Circus, on speed..
@Beech, I really hope you won’t find out at your own cost what Covid really is. But quite a few of those I will never have the chance to talk to again now because they passed away with this were doing the same brave talk you do since the beginning of this crisis. Well, each to his own. No, I am not past caring, but maybe exactly that is my problem.
I have had it, my father in law died of it. Ten months ago. Well actually he was 82 with dementia, but Covid went on the cert.
I am well aware of the condition. Flu, the common cold, obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, all kill more. People die, every day in their thousands. People get born every day in their thousands.
This is not about me, nor you. This is about a growing Orwellian and dystopian society with barriers and social injustice. Which incidentally is causing irreparable damage to huge sections of our society.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
That red herring is currently keeping a friend of mine in Italy getting a cancer treatment. And it is happening in Switzerland too. Without the government having anything to do with it btw, or rather having failed to prevent it. Simply no capacity.
Sorry to hear that. I just checked data for my local US area of circa 3 million people:
9.3% of immediately available hospital capacity is being utilized for CV-19 patients.
20% of ICU utilization is related to CV-19 and 56% for other conditions.
22% of immediately available ICU capacity is currently unutilized and another 20% surge capacity is available on top of that.
I’m sure glad government had little to do with producing those statistics, other than distributing vaccines to those who wanted them, and I hope government involvement will continue to be properly restricted.
A survey of one in France :
Went for a PCR test today for work. They asked me for my health pass, young lady gushing that I had 3 doses so wouldnt be charged for it.
Lady behind me asked same questions but had not been vaccinated. The frostiness was immediately discernable and then the young lady tried to suggest vaccination to avoid test fees… well, for a few minutes I wondered if there might be a cat fight!! It was very clear that the articulate and educated unvaxxed lady was sick to the back teeth of being lectured about getting vaccinated.
I think the jury is out on whether Macaroons comments will help or hinder his re- election agenda.
BeechBaby wrote:
I am well aware of the condition.
Hmm, and in the same paragrasph:
Flu, the common cold, obesity, diabetes, cancer, heart disease, all kill more
you demonstrate you clearly are not. Just how man people do you think the common cold and flu kills every year?
Just a reminder – a 1% deadly disease kills about as many people in a year as all other cases of death combined. And it is a like-for-like comparison as the majority of other cases of deaths kill primarily the elderly and weak.
BeechBaby wrote:
The unvaxxed are now known as THE PURE BLOODS.
Would just like to distance myself from this absolute nonsense. Concerned that it may have appeared, with juxtaposition of posts, that we were arguing the same point.
Silvaire wrote:
I just checked data for my local US area of circa 3 million people:9.3% of overall immediately available hospital capacity is being utilized for CV-19 patients.
20% of ICU utilization is related to CV-19 and 56% for other conditions.
22% of immediately available ICU capacity is currently utilized and another 20% surge capacity is available on top of that.
I’m sure glad government had little to do with producing those statistics.
I don’t have local data and cannot be bothered to look it up (if it’s even made available) but my purely anecdotal experience is that I had cause to visit a hospital yesterday for a couple of hours. In one outpatient area and one ward I saw a lot of staff milling around talking and looking at their phones, but remarkably few patients of any sort. The ward I entered had one patient occupying one of its maybe eight beds, and she didn’t look like she was hanging around for long. I was in close proximity to the emergency department, which contrary to media reports did not have a queue of ambulances outside it. For most of the time there was nothing parked outside, and as I was leaving one ambulance pulled up – the crew seemingly not in any sort of hurry.
In keeping with usual media dramatisation, I surmise that headlines such as ‘hospitals full to bursting and ambulances queuing outside’ are based on a single example of same. The minimum necessary for the claim not to be an actual lie.
Cobalt wrote:
the majority of other causes of deaths kill primarily the elderly and weak.
So does Covid-19, for the umpteenth time.
Quite a number of people I know here in the western US are now getting Covid, as this latest wave is again incoming from Europe.
A guy who works for me, his wife and one child got it somewhere over the holidays. All double or more vaccinated except I’m not sure about the child. He’ll be back at work on Monday, and I guess I’ll get the story.
Vaccinated US-based relatives got it and stayed home for a week. Three of them, not sure whether they’d had shot number three. Probably. All fine now.
A double vaccinated corporate pilot friend got it last week, who knows where, and ended up in a Beruit, Lebanon hotel room for a week. His symptoms were relatively mild and now having tested negative he’s on his way home today, flying commercial through Paris. His triple vaccinated copilot also got it and had symptoms more like a cold than the flu. We’ll have dinner with he and his wife when he gets home and hear the whole story. The only good news was he was paid $1000 a day for his time, flying or not, so the experience made him something like $10K, and at least the flight home is in first class per his arrangement.
A guy who works for me, his wife and one child got it somewhere over the holidays. All double or more vaccinated except I’m not sure about the child. He’ll be back at work on Monday, he’s working from home for now, and I guess I’ll get the story then.
I’m standing by on whether to get a Moderna booster shot. Data seems to indicate that my existing two shot Moderna series doesn’t degrade quite as much as the others over time, and I’d like for the (in general) EU-country dictated 9 month vaccine passport applicability to extend through the 2022 holiday season. That would say get the booster in April. Right now I can’t say I’m really all that interested in Europe, but I may need to go there. Meanwhile my German wife is downloading and printing the forms for US citizenship 
