gallois wrote:
This could certainly turn ugly
it is turning ugly just about everywhere.
What i notice is that the way the effectiveness of vaccines against Omikron INFECTION has been communicated often without saying that protection against hospital and death is pretty much unchanged, particularly after a 3rd jab, has gotten LOTS of people to doubt the whole vaccination concept as a whole and give up on it. That is quite a set back, seeing that due to the mounting restrictions quite a few people who did not vaccinate before now are at least considering it.
I notice that most of the Balkan countries have a militant anti vaxxer attitude in their population. I’ve stopped talking to most of them because it is pointless and because I don’t want to alienate more people. We even notice this here, where parents of that origin are extremely vocal and outright rude towards anyone who is vaccinated. The problem with that is, that many folks have gone so far into rejection that they “can not” simply go and get vaccinated for fear of loosing face or even retribution by those who will fight it to literally their death.
I read in some German papers that the only way out would be compulsory vaccination for everyone, like it is now coming in force in Austria, as it would also “allow” those whose militance has turned into religion almost to “save face” and get jabbed.
The next political war will be when vaccinations become available for kids in mid January.
So what Macron has said resonates with a lot of people, not only in France. Then again, politics are ugly at the best of times and right now, Macron has quite a lot of people opposing him, so whatever he sais will get used against him. Not much new there.
I watched some interview on DW the other day, with some so-called academic expert who claimed that the people now leaving Germany “remain dangerous” to the country because they will “promote violence from overseas” in opposition to current domestic controls on normal behavior. I wondered if this guy has any historical perspective. Presumably his ‘solution’ would be to build a wall to keep them in, and/or to jail them. I guess you can pick your era of oppression from the 20th century and there are tools in the toolbox to impose totalitarian rule. The DW interviewer had no criticism at all of this point of view, but one hopes that government there is not so arrogant, dictatorial and brainless.
Living under enforcement of legally mandatory shots every few months and use of Covid Passports to conduct ‘pretty much a normal life’ is not actually anything like normal life, it is not a solution to the public health problem and it does not usefully mitigate transmission. It is just manipulative, coercive insanity, unconstrained by a useful constitution, being inflicted on a somewhat brainwashed population. I think in the end people will come to their senses and the result will be entirely justified instability and revolt, much beyond what’s already being seen now in Europe.
There’s an old story of a group of people on a sailing boat. One of the passengers bashed a hole in the cabin floor and the water rushed in.
As the boat sank and the sharks began to gather a woman asked the captain why no one stopped the passenger from making the hole.
The captain answered. Well it was his cabin.:)
Silvaire wrote:
Living under enforcement of legally mandatory shots every few months and use of Covid Passports to conduct ‘pretty much a normal life’ is not actually anything like normal life, it is not a solution to the public health problem and it does not usefully mitigate transmission. It is just manipulative, coercive insanity, unconstrained by a useful constitution, being inflicted on a somewhat brainwashed population.
I couldn’t agree more.
Then consider:
Source is the very latest numbers from ourworldindata. All adjusted for population.
And people are seriously arguing that these measures ‘work’? The UK (England at least, which population-wise is most of the UK) has nothing in place except masks in indoor public spaces (shops, but not pubs or restaurants), yet by any measure is doing better than France at the moment.
At least Macron was honest in saying that the pass sanitaire was mainly a stick to encourage a notoriously vaccine-hesitant French population to get jabbed. It worked for that purpose, no doubt, but that’s a separate question to whether it’s a reasonable course of action. No-one can seriously argue it works beyond that, in terms of directly reducing infections and hospitalisations.
Trouble is, you’re stuck with it now. And you need your new jab every few months to keep it, otherwise you’re almost confined to barracks. Wow, I mean wow. A person’s right to go out for coffee/lunch/dinner dependent on submitting to an ongoing and indeterminate course of medical procedures, presumably forever. You don’t see any problem there? No problem at all? You implicitly trust your leaders not to expand the scope or abuse the power? There’s certainly no sign of any plans to get rid of it, nor would I expect there to be.
gallois wrote:
Some doctors are now calling for the unvaccinated to pay for their treatment if they are taking up ICU space with Covid.
There’s a much more straightforward solution to this problem. No vax – no ICU bed. The anti-vaxers always go on about their ‘freedom’. Let them have their freedom and respect their choice. But choices come with the consequences. In this case a miserable death. Fine by me.
Another good reason why government has nothing to do with using my tax payments to pay for my healthcare. Remove them from that loop, by moving where it is thankfully not the case, and another element of their coercive power over me is gone 
The ‘hospitals overflowing and other treatments delayed’ argument for unethical coercion has always been a red herring, certainly so in my US area. The system has been busy locally, but has not been anywhere near crisis. I’ve had unrelated visits to a couple of the larger facilities locally over the last year or so and its been calm, increasingly so now.
Graham wrote:
A person’s right to go out for coffee/lunch/dinner dependent on submitting to an ongoing and indeterminate course of medical procedures, presumably forever. You don’t see any problem there? No problem at all? You implicitly trust your leaders not to expand the scope or abuse the power? There’s certainly no sign of any plans to get rid of it, nor would I expect there to be.
That is the scenario that seems to be unfolding, a nightmare that will hopefully end when governments see that despite them having ‘trained’ people to accept it and think it somehow proper (even without technical merit) unconstrained exercise of power will if continued, in the end, have one result and that is chaos. The game now is for governments to see how far they can push it, and how much permanent power they can gain through e.g. national vaccine databases, associated taxes and so on before they need to back pedal to maintain control.
Silvaire wrote:
being inflicted on a somewhat brainwashed population.
Those of us that questioned this were if I remember – COVIDIOTS, CONSPIRACY THEORIST’S, UNVAXXED. What a wonderful world we now live in. You reap what you sow. The unvaxxed are now known as THE PURE BLOODS. Quite frightening and disturbing really. Hope Djokovic gets out of Australia.
172driver wrote:
There’s a much more straightforward solution to this problem. No vax – no ICU bed. The anti-vaxers always go on about their ‘freedom’. Let them have their freedom and respect their choice. But choices come with the consequences. In this case a miserable death. Fine by me.
I actually thought you were an adult? What an appalling post @172driver. You should know better..
Which of my posts are you referring to please.
Oh I note you have edited yours.
