@MedEwok I totally agree with your point about restaurants etc which have gone to a lot of trouble and expense to mitigate the danger.
They are being IMO unjustly punished for those that do not or the person (and there is always one) who decides that no rules or guidelines apply to him/her.
Malibuflyer wrote:
Yes – this damn bastards do not let me participate in the champions league finals – not sure if it’s because my overweight, my inability to run 100m faster than 14 sec or that I don’t particularly like football – but I’m pretty sure that is a completely unjustified act of punishment and revenge by those forces in charge!
MedEwok wrote:
The facts on the ground are these: Yesterday I had to bring am intubated/ventilated patient, who had just undergone a neurosurgical procedure due to a brain haemorrhage, to the cardiology ICU because the neurosurgical ICU is half-filled with Covid-19 patients (in addition to their usual neurosurgical patients), thus there was no other free bed. Of course, not a dramatic thing, the cardiologist are also able to perform intensive care, but it is nevertheless just one example that we are stretching our medical resources to the limit. And that is in a country which has plenty of these resources in comparison and – despite the 2nd wave hitting quite hard at the moment – is still comparably well off in this pandemic.Yet, not every “lockdown” measure really helps, there must be room for debate. For example, I am inclined to think that if people meet in restaurants, with adequate hygiene measures in place (hand disinfection, ventilation, lots of space between tables, wearing masks when not eating) this might be safer than unregulated meetings in private, where people probably don’t care about masks and distance because nobody watches them. Just one example up for debate.
I am all for strict lockdown measures, as long as they are effective.
OK, I will bite, because I have the time ;-).
Fact is 0.002 percent of the worlds population has died of Covid. 1.6 Mio people… In comparison cancer is the second leading cause of death globally, and is responsible for an estimated 9.6 million deaths in 2018. Globally, about 1 in 6 deaths is due to cancer.
Around one third of deaths from cancer are due to the 5 leading behavioral and dietary risks: high body mass index, low fruit and vegetable intake, lack of physical activity, tobacco use, and alcohol use. All preventable.
Tobacco use is the most important risk factor for cancer and is responsible for approximately 22% of cancer deaths. Again – preventable.
The economic impact of cancer is significant and is increasing. The total annual economic cost of cancer in 2010 was estimated at approximately US$ 1.16 trillion. Yet there is no rush for massive investment in finding a cure, thrashing out a vaccine in a few months etc… (btw I am not saying a vaccine is a bad thing)
Every year, prior to the current scaremongering Lower respiratory infections remained the world’s most deadly communicable disease, ranked as the 4th leading cause of death. However, the number of deaths has gone down substantially: in 2019 it claimed 2.6 million lives, 460 000 fewer than in 2000. This ‘Pandemic’ is nothing new, just another respiratory disease. https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/the-top-10-causes-of-death
What recent terrorist attacks have not managed to do ie fundamentally change the way we live our lives and give up our freedoms for security (and effectively losing both) this ‘panicdemic’ has managed very well. We are looking to our governments for reassurance guidance and punishment for those who refuse to live their lives in fear.
There is no proof lock downs work, zilch, zero, none. We know barrier gestures work and slow down the spread of viruses. We know washing hands works. So much time is spent on repression and infantilisation of the population that could be spent on education and explaining how to live with viruses in a place that is seriously over populated. If we give up on our individual rights of freedom, the right to flourish, explore, travel and interact with each other and outsource that decision making to governments for a disease where you have 0.002 percent of a chance of dying I personally think that is really, really dumb. No-one has taken away my right to think (as of yet) but if I am to believe some of the things I read, probably not for much longer…
@LFHN is it perhaps the speed of contagion (exponential growth) combined with morbidity/mortality? I see Sweden is following the route other nations have.
The sad thing the maroon brexiteer clique in the UK could have followed Taiwan, Guernsey, Kiwis but I guess that required an IQ closer to 90.
RobertL18C wrote:
@LFHN is it perhaps the speed of contagion (exponential growth) combined with morbidity/mortality? I see Sweden is following the route other nations have.
you reckon? currently 0.09% of the worlds population has had the Rona (as Don Jr likes to call it). Call me mad but I find this hardly alarming and completely out of whack with all the noise. That doesn’t seem like it really is all that contagious if I’m honest…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
currently 0.09% of the worlds population has had the Rona
I wonder where you have this figure from. The John Hopkins university gives a worldwide figure of just under 70 million people, which in my head is just under 1% of the world population (7.8 billion).
Over 1.5 million have died from this disease already.
Extrapolating from these figures: if the entire world population would catch it, 150 million people would die, more than in both World Wars combined (throw the Spanish Flu on top of them).
Ted wrote:
So what vacinne other the flu vaccine have you taken as an adult, that was not specifically to travel to a place with a serious disease such as yellow fever?
Hepatitis A (kind of needed/recommended in area where I was travelling), tetanus (also recommended as reinforcement for one trip) and smallpox during last European smallpox outbreak (although I wasn’t adult but my parents were and they were also vaccinated).
So none then. ;-) Which was my point. It’s exactly the same me for me which is none as an adult, with the exception of boosters for travel. I will most likely take anything that my GP tells me is well advised.
LeSving wrote:
Indeed. The immune system needs exercise, or you end up like a pale/blue feeble creature.
Strange observation. Your self-education in medicine is obviously higher than the one of actual medical professionals.
BTW immune system IS actually exercised with vaccination.
RobertL18C wrote:
I see Sweden is following the route other nations have.
Yet, in Sweden, Covid-19 is only the 3rd most common cause of death. Cardiovascular diseases and cancer each claim many more lives.
I don’t agree with people who claim that Covid-19 is “just another influenza”. It obviously is not. At the same time, I agree that there is no reason for panicking and that much that is being done to counter the disease is essentially pointless or makes more damage in other areas than good in stopping virus spread.
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Fact is 0.002 percent of the worlds population has died of Covid. 1.6 Mio people… In comparison cancer is the second leading cause of death globally
Fallacy: failure to take look into the future / failure to take into account the near-exponential growth in the first third of a pandemic.
Just to refresh our memory: this was passed around in March, making the same point (‘not that big, others are much worse…’)
Average daily deaths worldwide are currently around 10,000, and unless we are lucky and there are vastly more asymptomatic cases than we know about, we are still in that first third.
There is no proof lock downs work, zilch, zero, none
Fallacy: Ignoring the obvious. There have been more than enough ‘lockdowns’ and ‘easing’ to show this.
The question is not if they work, but if they are necessary considering the damage and given the alternatives which may be enough.
