Is there any data yet on the frequency of long term effects on younger people?
Ibra wrote:
I imagine no point for Boris Johnson to get vaccinated in front public TV
seeing that he is probably immune as he has passed Covid 19 I guess there is not much point indeed.
LeSving wrote:
No one in their right mind (normal persons) will take vaccines unless they have to, or think they are better off with a vaccine than without.
Tilting at windmills,
As an adult mostly the decision on a vacinne is either for your offspring, using a vacinne that has exceptionally long and safe history, or you travelling somewhere where you definitely don’t won’t to catch something, or its the flu vacinne.
By the time 20 somethings are actually offered it there should be a very clear picture of the drugs safety
Peter wrote:
That’s a line taken by many on social media, but it assumes that someone who has been vaccinated remains equally likely to catch the disease and pass it on to othersand none of the above are likely to be true once one has been vaccinated. To become infectious you need to catch it properly first, which you won’t if vaccinated. And asymptomatic spreading has been a key issue with CV19, enabling young people to catch it, spread it to older people, while not getting ill themselves.
The proposition also ignores the long-term or permanent organ damage which people get, and this is over all ages, not just the “old ones”.
Indeed. Vaccination is not an individual choice with such a vaccine (a whole school of thought seems to think s pandemic can be dealt with at the individual level, but it can’t…just like war: it won’t do you any good if you have stocked up on food and consumer goods and armed yourself to the teeth before the war came: the outcome still depends on society, not on you as individual).
I doubt that vaccinated people will be as infectious as before. Though we don’t know yet, but vaccinations in the UK should generate useful data within weeks. If they aren’t, then there are some arguments for vaccinating the most mobile people in the population first, because they are responsible for most of the spread. That would be the young people, at little risk of dying but with a lot of life years with compromised quality of life ahead of them if they suffer from “Long Covid”.
Maoraigh wrote:
Is there any data yet on the frequency of long term effects on younger people?
Covid has only been around for about 1-2 years and widely spread for only 9 months – there can’t be any data on long term effects as we are not in the “long term” yet.
MedEwok wrote:
I doubt that vaccinated people will be as infectious as before
Are the dossiers for approval already public? Would be interesting in this context if they used a virus load threshold or lack of symptoms as clinical endpoint for efficacy.
MedEwok wrote:
Vaccination is not an individual choice with such a vaccine
One of the sad insights of this pandemic for me is, how egoistic people in general really are. It will be the same Coronegoists that today claim “I don’t need to wear a mask because I’m willing to take the risk that I get infected” that next year will say “I don’t need to take vaccination because if everyone else is vaccinated I can’t get infected anywhere…”.
MedEwok wrote:
Vaccination is not an individual choice with such a vaccine
Yet compulsory vaccination where everyone gets forced to be vaccined has no chance.
However, it will be a question of privileges. More and more activities such as travelling will require the participants to produce a vaccination passport. Consequently, those who will want to return to a normal life, will sooner or later see that without it they will continue to live a very restricted life.
In a way, the fact that the UK is now pioneering and will be able to create a knowledgebase about the side effects and results in terms of infection figures, which should give those critical of vaccinations the information they seek right now.
In Switzerland, our certification body has made it clear that they will not certify the vaccinations without due process. That is no “emergency” certification or anything the like. Consequently, they expect us to be later than others but they are trying to instill confidence by this. Hopefully this will work.
With the bleak situation most of us face right now, loosing loved ones and acquaintances on a almost daily basis and seeing how more and more people get seriously ill all the time, the vaccination really is the only hope we have.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
which should give those critical of vaccinations the information they seek right now.
Let’s face it: Most people are not trained to deal with informations based on small probabilities and many of the “critical” people are in addition just not interested in them. A certain group of people even believes that vaccinations can cause autism – and if someone is run over by a truck when leaving the vaccination center they will happily post “We told you that this vaccine is deadly”.
The “problem” (it’s actually more a good thing) is that we already know that all the significant side effects of the vaccination will be so unlikely that even an individual physician can not generate something like “experience” with these side effects as she would not have a statistically number of patients in their population.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
it will be a question of privileges. More and more activities such as travelling will require the participants to produce a vaccination passport
Hopefully this will happen as soon as enough vaccine is available for everyone who wants to get a shot actually gets it.
Mooney_Driver wrote:
With the bleak situation most of us face right now, loosing loved ones and acquaintances on a almost daily basis
Let’s try some numbers. A high figure for the average number of social relations a person has is 250, but let’s be conservative and set the figure at 500. Also assume that an “almost daily basis” is every other day. That means that out of the 500 people you know, one would die every other day. For a country the size of Switzerland, it would mean about 8500 Covid-19 deaths every day. It is obvious that this is several orders of magnitude higher that what’s actually happening.
(Social relations are not evenly distributed – some people have many more social relations that other people. That would decrease the number of daily deaths corresponding to Mooney_Driver’s claim, but hardly enough for 2-3 orders of magnitude.)
MedEwok wrote:
Vaccination is not an individual choice with such a vaccine (a whole school of thought seems to think s pandemic can be dealt with at the individual level, but it can’t
Well, what do you suggest? Everyone is forced to take the vaccine? Take it, or stay put in your home for the rest of your life? That’s not going to happen, except maybe in China and other despotic nations. I think we have fought this pandemic off pretty good here in Norway, as well as NZ, Australia and many other. And it has been done without masks or other symbolic items. You don’t fight diseases with symbolism, unless the symbols really makes a difference of course 
For the elderly, especially those living in health care centers, it’s a different story altogether. With 10% + probability of dying, and close to 100% probability if one catch it, then everyone catch it, then this is a thing that must be prevented. Vaccinate those in the risk group, and death rates due to this disease will plummet to well below influenza rates. For all practical purposes this means the disease is dealt with. Then, I’m sure at least 50%, maybe 70-80% of those at 20+ years will take the vaccine, which will make the “R” well under 1.0.
I think rather than being all upset about vaccine, it is wiser to understand why the disease has spread so much in specific areas, and been fought off in others. I think it’s safe to say by now that the single most important thing is reacting with speed and decisiveness. Of these two, speed is by far the most important. This requires everyone on alert, and for everyone to be on alert, then everyone has to know what is going on. For everyone to know what is going on requires information, correct information. For instance, we here in Norway reacted over night so to speak. People who could work at home, did so. 2m distance in public spaces and so on. There was some over reactions as well in the start, mostly due to the novelty of this pandemic, but that didn’t make any difference wrt the disease. There was a massive information campaign going on focusing on 2 things:
Sweden and UK in particular did nothing. The health authorities had gotten into their heads that herd immunity would kick in, and this pandemic would be over by itself. Although this certainly is true, the side effect is massive death rates among those in the risk group and swamping of the health care system. You could say that it’s easy to say this in hindsight, but the information was already there from Italy. Health people and the government discussed this openly here at that time, on live TV, and while the herd immunity would perhaps work, it would also cause the health care to collapse. It was decided to smooth the curve, and when this was a piece of cake, it was decided to stamp it down. That also worked just fine, piece of cake. However, people have lives to live, and during the fall, the virus has spread again, but this time among the ages 10-30. Much more widespread now than in the spring, but fatality rate is almost zero, much less than ordinary flu. In fact, the overall mortality rate in Norway has never been so low as in 2020, mostly due to low level of flu and other diseases, as a side effect social distancing.
I mean, I chose to deal with reality, I chose to look at cause and effect. The vaccines WILL fight off this disease in no time, and there are no moral issues tied to this. You are not a “bad person” if you don’t take the vaccine, and not a “good person” if you do. Keep moralities and symbolism out of this. Those things have nothing to do here. The 60+ need it to survive, plain and simple. Younger people will take it en mass regardless due to fear alone. The result will be an “R” way below 1.0 and an end to this.
