Ibra wrote:
even UK has “clearance limit” similar to ICAO, nothing new under the sun: it’s just that ATC are well breifed and very careful not to tell you “cleared to Dinard at FL30” (see MATS Part1)
We all know how the UK does it. It’s just that they deviate from ICAO standards. In particular, 3.2(1) has no counterpart in ICAO standards, while 3.2(2) does.
Ibra wrote:
your statement clearly shows you can have swaths of Golf with limited ATC coverage but still have a fully integrated ATS system…
I don’t understand the point you’re trying to make. Of course you don’t have ATC in class G. But the ATC unit of the class C above does FIS for the class G.
That is my point, ATC does FIS for Class G bellow Class C all the way to the ground (or radio level) and can give R-permission and status…
In particular, 3.2(1) has no counterpart in ICAO standards
The comparaison for 3.2.1 is very moot as in 95% of ICAO countries: you can’t realistically, file & fly IFR OCAS above 3kft agl 
so only an outlier vs 5% of remaining countries…
Ibra wrote:
The comparaison for 3.2.1 is very moot as in 95% of ICAO countries: you can’t realistically, file & fly IFR OCAS above 3kft agl so only an outlier vs 5% of remaining countries…
I don’t know about all ICAO countries in the world, but in Europe – beside Sweden – we have Norway, Finland, the UK, France… Also, as far as I understand, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Poland…
Airborne_Again wrote:
But the ATC unit of the class C above does FIS for the class G.
Almost, but not really. The entirety of the Sweden FIR is divided into ACC sectors. Those ACC sectors encompass both controlled and uncontrolled airspace. There is uncontrolled airspace in certain areas all the way up to FL95. The FIS frequency in these areas cannot be the ATC frequency for the TMA above, since there is no TMA above. However, all FIS frequencies, which happen to coincide with other ATC frequencies since ATC provides the Flight Information Service, can be found in AIP ENR 2.2-6 until AIP ENR 2.2-18 under “ACC-sectors”.
Example:
Fun fact: 133.805 is the ATC unit “Sweden Control” but may only be used in G-airspace, essentially as an “FIS” unit. However, you will still hear anyone talking to 134.980 being relayed on 133.805.
Ibra wrote:
ATC does FIS for Class G bellow Class C all the way to the ground (or radio level) and can give R-permission and status…
Not really, they also cover airspace not directly below their class C. See my answer above.
ACC sector lines where the FIS frequency changes. You see it doesn’t always match the class C above.
Dimme wrote:
The FIS frequency in these areas cannot be the ATC frequency for the TMA above, since there is no TMA above.
I didn’t write “TMA above”, I wrote “class C above”. SUECIA CTA is class C.
Fun fact: 133.805 is the ATC unit “Sweden Control” but may only be used in G-airspace, essentially as an “FIS” unit.
You’re right, but that’s the only place in Sweden where this happens and I actually thought that this instance of ATC/FIS frequency split had been abandoned.
Airborne_Again wrote:
I didn’t write “TMA above”, I wrote “class C above”. SUECIA CTA is class C.
Do you talk to Sweden Control responsible for Suecia CTA at 1500 feet in Class G? Please provide an example in that case.
Dimme wrote:
Do you talk to Sweden Control responsible for Suecia CTA at 1500 feet in Class G? Please provide an example in that case.
All the time when there is no TMA above. Seriously, who else should I talk to!?
A very concrete example is the Uppland fire patrol route which is partially flown about 20 NM N-NW of Stockholm TMA, at typical altitudes of 1000-1500 feet. You talk to Sweden on 118.205.
