pilotrobbie wrote:
it was something to do with LANGEN not allowing me to depart close behind an airliner IFR
That’s interesting. Do you know why not? The speed difference should make separation a non-issue and wake turbulence separation is, AFAIU, a tower responsibility.
wake turbulence separation is, AFAIU, a tower responsibility.
I thought it was the pilot’s responsibility to wait x minutes after lining up. That was the IR teaching here.
Peter wrote:
I thought it was the pilot’s responsibility to wait x minutes after lining up. That was the IR teaching here.
According to PANS-ATM it is the responsibility of ATC. But only at controlled airports, of course.
There is an exception for VFR arrivals and for IFR arrivals on visual approach. In those cases ATC need only caution the pilots who are expected to adjust their flight path as required or request additional spacing from ATC.
5.8.1.1 The ATC unit concerned shall not be required to apply wake turbulence separation:
a) for arriving VFR flights landing on the same runway as a preceding landing HEAVY or MEDIUM aircraft; and
b) between arriving IFR flights executing visual approach when the aircraft has reported the preceding aircraft in
sight and has been instructed to follow and maintain own separation from that aircraft.
5.8.1.2 The ATC unit shall, in respect of the flights specified in 5.8.1.1 a) and b), as well as when otherwise
deemed necessary, issue a caution of possible wake turbulence. The pilot-in-command of the aircraft concerned shall be
responsible for ensuring that the spacing from a preceding aircraft of a heavier wake turbulence category is acceptable. If
it is determined that additional spacing is required, the flight crew shall inform the ATC unit accordingly, stating their
requirements.
5.8.3.1 A minimum separation of 2 minutes shall be applied between a LIGHT or MEDIUM aircraft taking off
behind a HEAVY aircraft or a LIGHT aircraft taking off behind a MEDIUM aircraft when the aircraft are using:
a) the same runway;
etc….
Malibuflyer wrote:
Really? I thought CTOT after off block is not possible ?!? For SEP it might only be an inconvenience, but for heavy metal it might be a challenge in terms of fuel if they get a one hour delay with running engines at the holding point….
It’s interesting. When I said departure I was referring to going off blocks, it has happened to me personally that I have been told ‘no slot’ and then when requesting start getting told ‘a restriction has just appeared for you’. However, in a weird coincidence, I was on a commercial flight yesterday and we lined up, then taxid off the runway and the PA from the flight deck told us that they had been issued with a slot and would have to return to the holding point for 10 minutes. I have no personal experience of this happening but assuming we were told the truth then it is indeed possible!
Has anyone else noticed more slots at the beginning of every calendar year? Maybe it’s a French thing I’m not sure but for the past 3 years, I have been getting these absolutely ridiculous slots (for no other reason than Lyon Airspace capacity, which really is a joke given current reduced traffic levels) and always at the beginning of the year. Routes that would validate previously also do not validate anymore getting back into my home airport. (which I sorted with RocketRoute) So there was a bit of fiddling going on get something to validate for filing. I won’t get anywhere near the ’’real’’ Lyon TMA and will cancel to get in VFR for the last bit – however, will of course be told I have a slot…
LFHNflightstudent wrote:
Routes that would validate previously also do not validate anymore getting back into my home airport.
I think quite a few areas became “max DCT 0nm” in France.
Got a few examples.
I learned today that slots are issued at Bergamo LIME as well. I don’t remember it was the case in the past but I was there last time two years ago.
@LFHNflightstudent
I also got a slot on 1/1/2022 from Lyon on a Z flight plan with take-off from Bourg-en-Bresse (LFHS) north of Lyon and almost outside their zones, northbound to Belgium.
As I departed in a hurry VFR because on fast oncoming mist, I had not noticed the slot message from Foreflight on my mobile phone, but when airborne upon contacting Lyon Approach they were surprised to see me and they smugly told me that I was on a slot and that I had to remain VFR until outside their control … which I did. Basle Approach then cleared me IFR asap and the rest is history.
My planned EOBT was 15:45 and I received a calculated take-off time of 16:04… which would be at a moment that the airport would have been engulfed in thick mist …
The message from Foreflight:
You have received a slot allocation from EUROCONTROL for your flight plan from LFHS to EBKT (N626JG). Your calculated takeoff time is 16:04:00. To stop receiving these messages, reply STOP.
In general I do receive some slottimes which are mostly related to ATC capacity at some chokepoints near me (mainly around Lille in North France).
Niner_Mike wrote:
As I departed in a hurry VFR because on fast oncoming mist, I had not noticed the slot message from Foreflight on my mobile phone, but when airborne upon contacting Lyon Approach they were surprised to see me and they smugly told me that I was on a slot and that I had to remain VFR until outside their control …
Yes that side of the Jura get’s bogged in real quickly when there is high pressure in winter. Still hoping that slot time for tomorrow improves, or will ask tower to call and see it it can be moved forward. Lyon are honestly not that busy atm… There hardly is any traffic at all…
