SR22 operating costs

BeechBaby wrote:

a ‘go places aeroplane’. Until they had it and then did not want to pay to ‘’go places’’

It has nothing to do with the aeroplanes, the PA18s are really “go places aeroplanes” just people who fly them don’t take them that far and they rather like holes in the sky in the LFA

Obviously if you are doing it regularly in tight schedule & weather you may need Bo and it does come on cheaper MPG than PA18 on 800nm distance and way more comfortable !

So you need to be creative to invent excuses if club members don’t fly the old C172s for 1000nm they will not fly the new SR22 for 1000nm !

Ibra wrote:

the PA18s are really “go places aeroplanes”

I brought mine, PA-18 150, from Southern Spain and trust me, my backside ached for weeks. Far more comfort in my Bonanza…

Edit to add———everywhere at 90kts in my Cub. Not complaining, lets you see the countryside, but not for Ibiza for the weekend.

BeechBaby wrote:

I brought mine, PA-18 150, from Southern Spain and trust me, my backside ached for weeks. Far more comfort in my Bonanza…

That’s my point if your bu** does not feel the pain on a PA18 you simply don’t need a Bo

At some point in the past C172s were the “going to places” aircrafts, so pity people fly them on a 100$ burger run and then complain they don’t have an SR22GTS to go far away

Peter wrote:

I recall multiple posts by @patrick (?) mentioning a German club which rents out this sort of hardware for not much money – and equally importantly and unusually – with few restrictions on how long you can take it away for. Clearly at that particular location there is a lot of €€€€€ being spent.

Not quite – I used to be active in a club which maintains a large fleet and actively encourages people to fly long trips and from my point of view, the main ingredients were economies of scale (members + aircraft) & in-house maintenance. However, the club did not and does not operate Cirrus aircraft. It operates a mix of very uniform PA28 (all newer than 2000), C172 (older ones now gradually being replaces by newer ones), and C182RG with and without Turbo.

As some will know, I fly in a club/non equity flying group that operates, among others, a 1965 Beech Debonair and a 1959 Beech Bonanza.

Both are certainly to be considered more problematic in a club environment than an SR22.

So far, so good. Nobody has wrecked any of the aircraft (knock on wood). Whether they are economically viable in the long term is not yet possible to say, since this setup has not been in place for long enough. They do cost a lot of money on maintenance. Moreover, they necessitate time and dedication, i.e. someone who is “into” their technicalities, has good contacts in the business and is creative in sourcing parts and clever repairs. Luckily, we have that.

Also, my area (Wiesbaden/Mainz/Rheingau/Frankfurt) is very wealthy and possibly the best suited catchment area of Germany (Europe?) for a club like this. There is a huge supply of pilots in the Rhein Main area.

The Debonair is happily flown by quite a number of people. I guess this is because it is very straightforward to fly, very smooth and because it has great avionics.
The Bonanza is so far only flown by less than a handful of people, but that is also because we haven’t had it for long, yet. This is definitely a plane for people who take a liking in operating old, complex and quirky aircraft. But the stick and rudder flying itself is easy and pleasant.

I guess we all enjoy it as long as it lasts.

boscomantico wrote:

Both are certainly to be considered more problematic in a club environment than an SR22.

I assume you mean in overall operation. I certainly agree that these types, older aircraft, with all of their quirks and strange ergonomics are not everyone’s cup of tea, but I have always held the view that these aircraft require TLC and preservation. They should be flown considerately, maintained meticulously, and thoroughly enjoyed.

Like cars some people prefer the shiny bling, super dooper ergo, brand new plastic/electric thingy, others savour old Jags and retro Porsche. Despite the fact that they are forever breaking down. Folks swan past in the latest puke Green Kia Sportage laughing at you at the side of the road. But they will never experience what we experience.

I personally do not like the new composite, whatever Cirrus/Cessna/Beech with all glass information overload. I still operate in VOR/NDB stuff because that is what I enjoy. I also do it in very expensive older aircraft. But then only I know that.

This of course is the club dilemma. When mine was at the syndicate club we were looking at 240 per hour for the Bonanza. Most of the members, even those that gasped at a Bonanza at the club, stuck with the 140 per hour, clapped out 172, and arrived 40 minutes later than everyone else. They stated they did not care, and I came to learn that actually none of it mattered. It is what you enjoy and want to do with your hard earned cash that actually matters.

Peter wrote:

Welcome to GA

I know the guy very well and have a photo of the said part.

Hi Peter,

I think I know the part you are referring to but the issue isn’t that it needs to be regularly replaced, rather that it can be damaged by heavy dropping of the nose wheel. Part of the welds cracked, if I recall correctly…..

The gas strut is affixed between two triangular flanges on the nose gear leg by means of a through bolt and nut, with spacing assured by flanged washers and flat spacers.

A similar through bolt and nut affixes the strut to the engine frame.

Short of a through bolt failure nothing can account for the described failure mode, surely not a circlip as none is used in the assembly.

None of the parts above come even close to GBP2k including shop rate.

One would also assume such a frequent failure would have been subject of a SB if not an AD.

Thanks for the insights. As for the Q how many $$$$ are floating around our club – it depends. In general we suffer from the same phenomenon some posters have alluded to – champagne taste and beer budget. This has recently gotten worse, as our demographic has changed and now skews younger. Millennials all seem to suffer from the same delusion of ‘free stuff’ which can and does lead to some pretty tedious debates.