Looking to buy a first airplane Cessna FR 182 RG. Would appreciate advice. Also N-reg versus G-reg.

Silvaire wrote:

My last annual inspection was $400 with most of the work done by me and probably four hours of inspection by the A&P IA (which is what cost $400). This is a fixed gear plane where the IA has to do nothing except come to my hangar and inspect, it is completely ready when he arrives.

Yea, well, the annuals of the Cessna 150 I used to have were also quite a bit cheaper than of the Mooney, which is a complex airplane by US definition. So I doubt that even in the US you can do annuals on complex certified planes for $400.

In any event, we all know the US is the promised land for GA, but all of us who can’t fly or live there have to cope somehow. Yes, it is expensive, but sometimes the prices get overstated too.

As a hint, I once considered importing a new car from the US, as the list price in the US for the Camry was about 60% cheaper than it was here. So even with transport, customs and conversion (lights, some instruments) it would have been about half the price of what it cost here. So that is the other bit if you want to compare prices: The US in general is MUCH cheaper than most of Europe.

So I doubt that even in the US you can do annuals on complex certified planes for $400.

Probably not. But like anything it depends on the condition of the plane, your preparation and how much the A&P is willing to let you do under ‘supervision’.

The only difference between my plane and an M20C is retractable landing gear, the rest of the plane, engine and prop inspection is essentially the same. Hereabouts if the owner of a retractable is smart he buys or makes (usually a combination of both) his own jacks so that it’s already in the air prior to the IAs inspection. Swinging and inspecting the gear then goes faster assuming there are no issues. It also comes in handy for tire replacements – which can be done by the pilot/owner any time.

One of my hangar ‘neighbors’ has this down to an art with his Marchetti 260, especially after he completely rebuilt the gear in 2022, which did involve buying some eye wateringly expensive parts. There were a million parts spread all over the hangar benches, this is no simple Al Mooney designed landing gear and he did everything including rechroming the struts. It’s now carefully rigged and as new, so I’m assuming inspections from now will go quite smoothly. However that plane is in experimental category meaning he can work on it unsupervised and the inspection does not require an IA, only an A&P. That would be a great for me, and I am eternally jealous of his plane and situation.

Yes, it is expensive, but sometimes the prices get overstated too.

I’m sure that is the case in Europe. Sometimes people like to boast about how much they spend, and defensively deny that a little creativity and cooperation might have have cut their costs a lot. For snobs an aircraft can be a way to demonstrate their ability to spend. OTOH my go fast Mooney owning friend in Germany/Austria spends a lot but he is well grounded and not cavalier about it – he knows what he’s buying before he buys it. Some parts have a made a stop at our house on their way from Kerrville

Silvaire wrote:

Hereabouts if the owner of a retractable is smart he buys or makes (usually a combination of both) his own jacks so that it’s already in the air prior to the IAs inspection. Swinging and inspecting the gear then goes faster assuming there are no issues. It also comes in handy for tire replacements – which can be done by the pilot/owner any time.

If you have a T-Hangar or similar. Most people here, if they have a hangar space at all, is in a common hangar where it’s impractical and often even prohibited to keep material other than a small cubboard for the essentials and to do maintenance in. Essentially like in a car park where next to you are 100 others. In a private T-Hangar or similar, what you do behind closed (or open) doors is a totally different story. But those are very rare here, even though there are people lucky enough to have one.

Silvaire wrote:

Sometimes people like to boast about how much they spend, and defensively deny that a little creativity and cooperation might have have cut their costs a lot.

That one is funny actually, especcially in sales adverts. “40k spent on maintenance last year” is meant to tell no expenses spared, but will rather make a potential buyer run the hundred yards well under 10 sek from a standing start, into the opposite direction. I don’t know what these guys are thinking.

At least in France the derogation ended in June last year. Which is why I have jumped through all the necessary hoops to get an EASA PPL and am cirrently doing the same for an EASA IR.

It looks like a good aeroplane for a good price. Think it had a previous Air Squadron owner and was on some notable cross-country flights!

I have a 1975 C182P for sale with an overhauled engine and a new prop. It has 3000hrs TTAF, LR Tanks, STOL kit, wheel fairings, 7/10 paint and original interior. 530/HSI/Trig Mode S and S-Tec autopilot. It will be £150k with a new ARC/Annual. So you have a point of reference for the price of the R182. We sold the TR182 we had during Covid for €120k on the N-reg with a 50hr engine.

Was quoted 20k just for change of registration

I would like to see the breakdown on that figure I’d say they saw you coming…

There can be peripheral reasons e.g. the plane is a shagged out old dog and the Export CofA (an Annual basically) will be expensive due to defect rectification cost.

Most most likely these people don’t want the work because they are out of their depth.

CAA is likely to request engine and prop overhaul which I was quoted another ~£60k

You generally can’t do a registry change with the engine past TBO. Re the prop overhaul, that depends on whether it is on an SDMP but that is a rare option and may not be available for a new registry move.

Is it that N-reg just attracts a lower price

N-reg does reduce the value a bit nowadays. The FAA licensed community is getting older even faster than “normal GA”, due to a long sequence of “death by a thousand cuts” measures.

Of course if you have an FAA license or willing to get it then it’s a bargain!

You would need local reg papers anyway, since the 2011 Brussels “attack on N-reg”, derogated until mid 2021, but getting FAA papers is not that hard, and unlike the European stuff, are yours for life.

For a novice to ownership I would recommend a “minimal hassle” route.

I would suggest effect of N reg depends on type. A well documented Warrior probably commands a premium on G reg vs it’s Stateside and domiciled equivalent.

Higher end types it goes the other way. Although aircraft on the D reg seem to be in line with N reg.

MEPs N reg probably results in a premium because basically the G reg MEP market is so thin.