Had a walk around the show as exhibitors were packing up. The turbine robin is a mock-up only. Engine came off and airframe dismantled for transport.
250hp turboshaft engine for helicopter applications. couldn’t that be adjusted for fixed wing applications?
@Silvaire wrote:
LeSving, your ability to create models that match the conclusion you wish to reach is notable. […] So you buy new, and it makes sense for you. You also pay outrageous fuel prices and so a small engine to power the lightest possible plane is what you want to buy.
That is very much the case for you, too! In fact, you are pointing out in every other post that you do exactly what makes sense for you, in the situation you’re in. So LeSving’s generalisations are no less valid that yours.
Everyone lives in his bubble, don’t we?
As posted above, the turbine Robin is a mock-up and does not exist as a running example even on the ground. It seems to be no more than you could achieve by getting a Robin, removing everything firewall forward, and bolting a TP engine in there. You could do that in your garage.
Coming back to their recent bankrupcy it really looks like it was just an asset stripping job. The managent sinks the business by putting it into administration, does an under the table deal with the admin to sell the assets (not the company) back to the management, and they carry on as before, with all liabilities gone, notably those related to their recent glue problem. I’ve seen this maneuver done loads of times.
That is very much the case for you, too! In fact, you are pointing out in every other post that you do exactly what makes sense for you, in the situation you’re in. So LeSving’s generalisations are no less valid that yours.
Well, I happen to live at the world’s center of the GA market, and I’m talking about the world’s GA market.
With that In mind, when I’m writing on a forum that is by its name and charter centered on a small part of the worlds GA market, one driven by factors that don’t drive most buyers and operations worldwide, it may seem that I’m focusing on what makes sense to buy for me personally. I’m actually writing about what makes sense to the worlds GA market as a whole, which is driven in part by factors that you may find unfamiliar.
Of course I spend my money on what is best for me personally, for example I own and fly a hardly known FAA certified European built aircraft in the US, one of less than a handful on N-register. That works for me on several levels but I wouldn’t say it would work for anybody. Everybody anywhere buys what makes sense for them personally and as they get smarter than the norm in a given subject their priorities and choices are likely to divert from the norm. Regardless, yes, when more broadly applicable I use my own choices to illustrate a greater point. I think that’s better than e.g. making ethereal points about fantasy situations that don’t exist anywhere, never mind being relevant to the GA market as a whole. Anything to do with turboprops at 200 HP level falls into the ethereal fantasy category.
Along those lines, to further illustrate a greater point, at my current cash savings level I could buy six or seven Rotax 912s per year without touching my current monthly expenses or impacting my other hobbies. But to me and apparently to most other people at the center of the GA market buying one or the airframe it would be attached to doesn’t make sense financially or technically. It might make more sense to people in more marginal GA market areas, much like buying a 250 cc motorcycle for daily transport makes sense to people in India, but that does not make it more practical or better where relatively large numbers of people are successful in making, buying, maintaining and regulating GA aircraft and components in order to facilitate travel by GA aircraft. I happen to live and operate where that is broadly the case and if you hadn’t noticed, it isn’t Norway.
Regardless of philosophy or the factors above, a turbine Robin would have had about 1/2 to 3/4 of the MPG of the piston one.
Maybe aeroclubs, doing short local hops mostly, don’t care about that, but actually I bet they do!
So it’s a gimmick.
Especially as most Robins have gone into the French aeroclub community which really does not need any of the benefits of a turbine. If you disregard the poor MPG you still have the benefit of Jet-A1 but that is not a driver in the French club scene because they have Avgas everywhere they need it. Jet-A1 is a big driver in Europe where you fly a lot of bigger airports which have Jet-A1 and no Avgas, but this (using bigger airports) is precisely what the French club community tries really hard to avoid.
Gimmicks are what you do when you have zero R&D money and want to make a splash 
I would regardless enjoy having a new DR401, with the most powerful available 200 HP Lycoming, more so than I think any other new production, four seat aircraft that’s (almost, sort of) in current production. If they were FAA certified, I could see it being the kind of thing I’d buy in my current stage of life and flying. I’m sure as heck not interested in a boring, truck like Diamond, Cessna or Piper (and it’s probably telling of my interests that Cirrus didn’t even come to mind until I edited the post for completeness)
For us, Robins are the most boring planes around
Silvaire wrote:
I happen to live and operate where that is broadly the case and if you hadn’t noticed, it isn’t Norway.
You are saying lots of stuff now Silvaire. If you haven’t noticed, this is EuroGA (Euro as in Europa, the continent). GA as an international industry is in many ways completely rotten. Much of it is in a “Cuban state” where people reuse and maintain old stuff. This is not because the old stuff is particularly good, and it’s not because new stuff is not obtainable. It’s because very few can afford new stuff. 40-60 years ago people could afford new stuff. It’s exactly like Cuba (or what Cuba used to be at least regarding cars), but for different reasons. Charming? well, somewhat, but not at the scale it is today, and not when knowing that it is the People’s Republic of China that owns nearly the entire industry. It encompasses pretty much all of certified GA. It’s ultimately a failure of the economy (compared with 40-60 years ago on this particular matter). Another way to look at it, is that the GA bubble 40-60 years ago was exactly that, a bubble. It was bound to burst sooner or later because it was not sustainable. It certainly has burst, not with a big bang, but with a very very long psssssssstttt
What has happened in the last 40-50 years is the kit industry in the US and the UL industry in Europe. In a few European countries we can reap all the benefits of both “regimes”. When compared back to back, this shows that the UL industry is by far the most easy going and cost effective for most people. The US has tried to copy the UL scene, but has failed miserably by implying lots of operational/technical restrictions (a max sea level IAS, no CS prop, no retracts etc. in addition they have introduced, a quazi certification process that leaves the owner completely in the hands of the manufacturer). In the same manner some European countries have implied restrictions on experimentals which makes them less attractive at the top end, which is unfortunate because lots of experimentals are at the top end performance vise.
The UL industry is IMO in a danger of simply pricing itself out of existence. The same can be said about the kit industry. I think this has something to do with strong connection between aviation and dreams. In many cases it’s not aircraft that are sold, but dreams. This is what these TPs are all about also. On the other hand, both the UL scene and the kit scene have something that certified GA don’t have. That thing is non-certification. This means there will always be someone making stuff that makes sense for the average private person in fulfilling the dream of flying his/her own plane. The ultimate example of this is IMO the Subsonex. It’s not cheap, and certainly not cheap to operate taking into account the low TBO. But at the same time it’s not so expensive that most people cannot afford it by prioritizing, buying/selling at the right time and so on. Owning and flying your own single seat jet is an obtainable thing, which is pretty amazing when thinking about it. The total cost is less than one of those small TP showcases.
