Well dont tell anybody but I got it straight from the administration about airport status. Ive been after them for 4 yrs to get it done so that Jepp would include it in their Navigation data base. Scares the hell out of my passengers when the Instruments are screaming… terrain, terrain, Pull up, pull up! As Im coming in on final.
Private airports can be and are included in the Jepp Data bases Tokol is not LHKV which is Private VFR field only is in the data base.
Ive given up until they finally complete the process before I waste my time with Jepp.
The owners refuse to put any money into the place because they are not sure they want to keep the property as an “airport” or make it into a shopping Mall. That is why nothing there gets done. A few owners have decide to take a chance and build a few hangars. I was told if I wanted to build a hangar it would be ok just make sure it is of the removable temporary type.
C210_Flyer wrote:
Janos good job digging through all that stuff, but as far as I know they do not have Avgas at LHBP. Has that changed?
I recall reading it somewhere that they have it, but now checked in the AIP and they indeed do not seem to have AVGAS. I’ll try to double check, but for the time being please assume that LHBP Ferihegy has no AVGAS.
How do you get by without an Handling charge?
That’s a very very good question how it works in practice, but you can also read the relevant tariff manual section. (I believe we also discussed it in person last fall.) The problem is that there is no GA contact point directly for the airport, only through one of the handlers. There is however a “pro forma invoice request form” published by the airport itself. When I’ll have some spare time, I will send them that requesting a complete quotation and also the exact procedures of pax identification without GA terminal handler involvement.
The other thing is that the Taxi times are a bit off. To get to center city without traffic I find 40 mins is about correct with standard traffic. No traffic 30 mins is doable rush hour it could be an hour.
I drove to the CAA building (very close to the airport) from Deák Ferenc tér (very centre of Budapest) a few times this year during the day, and it was never more than 30 min, but you probably have much more experience driving there than me. The road can certainly get congested and a single accident can shut the main, 2-lane elevated link completely, forcing you to take much slower alternative routes.
The best thing is to take the bus to the subway costs about 2.5 Euros/p
Now there are actually three bus lines serving the airport:
100E (special ticket, ca. 3 EUR/p) to Deák Ferenc tér in the city centre (30-60 min headway)
200E (normal tariff, ca. 1.5 EUR/p) to nearest metró station on the outskirts of the city (ca. 10 min headway)
900E (normal tariff, ca. 1.5 EUR/p) at night, you have to change to another night bus service to get into the actual centre of the city
About Tokol its not an official airport so Jepp does not include it in the database.
Tököl is an official airport, but not public. See below. Here is a list of all airports in Hungary: http://www.nkh.gov.hu/documents/11106/148252/Magyarorsz%C3%A1gi+rep%C3%BCl%C5%91terek+list%C3%A1ja/33c52c74-b442-401f-9e75-34f670c3554d?version=1.9&type=xlsx
They are all official, because you are not allowed to land otherwise (except: helicopter operators – they can land anywhere with owner permission AND agricultural operators – they can land at there private strips, which still need to be registered, but their list is not on the web). But most are not public.
Airborne_Again wrote:
What does it mean that it is not an official airport? It has a location indicator, AFIS, customs and immigration as well.
It’s not a public airport, meaning that in theory they can send you away if they don’t like you. In practice, they operate like a public airport, i.e. you can arrive without any PNR/PPR and will be accepted.
And LHTL Tököl does NOT have customs or immigration. Both are only O/R, but in Hungary you can request customs/immigration to clear you at a farm strip if you pay them (ca. 100 EUR/2-hour slot). So O/R immigration/customs mean nothing.
It’s not listed in AIP-Hungary, but it doesn’t seem to list any VFR-only airports.
AIP Hungary lists public airports. 2 of them are VFR only (LHNY Nyíregyháza and LHUD Szeged), while the rest are VFR and IFR. These airports, being public, must adhere to their published opening times and must accept any traffic when they are open.
C210_Flyer wrote:
About Tokol its not an official airport so Jepp does not include it in the database.What does it mean that it is not an official airport? It has a location indicator, AFIS, customs and immigration as well. It’s not listed in AIP-Hungary, but it doesn’t seem to list any VFR-only airports.
Thank you all again!
Janos good job digging through all that stuff, but as far as I know they do not have Avgas at LHBP. Has that changed?
How do you get by without an Handling charge?
The other thing is that the Taxi times are a bit off. To get to center city without traffic I find 40 mins is about correct with standard traffic. No traffic 30 mins is doable rush hour it could be an hour. The best thing is to take the bus to the subway costs about 2.5 Euros/p
About Tokol its not an official airport so Jepp does not include it in the database. You have to make a user waypoint.
Taxis will cost about 9000 Ft and take without traffic 40 mins. With traffic about an hour so expect to pay more. Gypsy cab cost me 6000 Ft last time. You can take a taxi to the HEV railway line to the city then from there Streetcar along the Danube.
Landing fee is about 15 Euros or thereabouts cause it just went up. Maybe 16 Euros.
Krakow is PPR24 until 12.07 due to Unesco merting. Handler has to arrange permission from air force to go in field 18. I was refused ad-hoc landing and had to go to Katowice a few days ago. With prior arrangement it’s ok.
Personally I prefer EPWA over EPBC. It’s not that expensive. If you go, use LS for handling.
That’s really great, thank you all!
In the afternoon I was posting from a phone. Here is a bit more complete info for Budapest:
LHBP Ferihegy
- 3,707 m and 3,010 m hard runways
- H24
- VFR and IFR
- full ATC
- permanent customs and immigration (no extra charge)
- AVGAS and JET A1
- landing fee <10 t: 130.01 EUR
- parking: EUR 0.22/hour/1000 kg (22:00 – 06:00 LT free of charge)
- passenger service charge: EUR 35.88/ departing passenger
- other small fees (secutity fee etc) may also arise, tariff manual is a bit unclear here
- handling: not mandatory according to Tariff manual 2.1.3 a) (rev Apr 1, 2017)
- H24 public transport access (city centre ca. 20 min by train or ca. 45 min by bus + metro, ca. 3 EUR), taxis (city centre ca. 25 min, ca. 20 EUR), rental cars
LHTL Tököl
- 2,500 m hard runway
- 07:30 LT – SS
- VFR
- AFIS HU/EN
- customs and immigration O/R
- AVGAS and JET A1
- landing fee:
MTOW
0 – 1000 kg 1.150 Ft 4 EUR
1001 – 4000 kg 1.700 Ft / 1000 kg 6 EUR / 1000 kg
4001 – 10.000 kg 2.350 Ft / 1000 kg 8 EUR / 1000 kg
- parking: open air 0,5EUR/100kg/every 24hour (first 3 hours from landing are for free)
- daytime public transport access (either intercity bus to Csepel + suburban railway or intercity bus + 2x suburban railway, city centre ca. 100 min, ca. 10-12 EUR), taxi (5 min to nearest suburban railway station or 35 min to city centre)
LHBS Budaörs
- 980 m grass runway
- 08:00 LT – SS (NVFR until 22:00 LT possible)
- VFR
- AFIS HU/EN
- customs and immigration O/R
- AVGAS
- landing fee: <10 EUR (could not find fee schedule online)
- almost H24 public transport access (tram no. 41 to city centre: 25 min to nearest metro, 40 min to city centre, ca. 1.5 EUR; other options available), taxi (25 min to city centre, <20 EUR)
LHKK Kiskunlacháza
- 795 m hard runway (part of much longer original runway, TORA/TODA/LDA/ASDA longer)
- SR – SS
- VFR
- A/G HU/EN
- customs and immigration O/R
- online PPR required
- landing: free of charge
- nearest railway station 3 km walk, then 60 minute train ride to nearest metro or 50 min drive to city centre (no car rental or taxi facilities)
Since LHBS Budaörs does not fulfill your requirement for a hard runway, you only have LHBP or LHTL to choose from, the latter being the obvious choice for light GA. LHKK is IMO a bit too far away to be a real alternative, but you may look into it. If you can live with the fees at LHBP, they will of course accept you and its the “best” airport overall. For VFR pilots being able to accept grass runways, LHBS Budaörs is the best option by far IMO.
For the sake of completeness, LHGD Gödöllő, LHDK Dunakeszi and LHFH Farkashegy are all airports around Budapest with grass runways. They are rather poorly located for public transport (or even taxi) purposes and unless you visit the local club, they are not much of an alternative to visit Budapest. LHHH Hármashatárhely is at an incredibly nice location, but it has sadly been closed for years.
Sometimes LHPR Győr/Pér is considered as an airport serving Budapest, but I can’t fathom why anyone would land there for that reason. It’s half a country away. Of course it’s a decent alternate should the need arise in flight, but don’t plan to land there if your goal is to visit Budapest.
Babice EPBC is fine; 1301m long, 90m wide, concrete or parallel grass, a little longer and wider, your choice; operating hours are 6am till 10pm LT, outside of those it is by arrangement, but possible; the landing fee is about 17EUR up to 2 ton, or about 12EUR/ton if above 2t. Parking depends on wingspan, over 12m (a PA31) about 50EUR/24h. Decent ways to get to the city (it is basically in town, so bus, taxi, whatever), should be much more convenient than any alternative (EPWA, EPMO).
Pobiednik EPKP is grass only, so if a hard runway is a hard requirement, you’re stuck with EPKK, which I thought was relatively expensive and said to not be too GA-friendly, but that might be heresay, since it looks like landing is 8EUR/ton and parking is 3EUR/ton/24h. Unfortunately you might be subject to a passenger charge, about 10EUR/person and a 1.5EUR/person security fee. No mention of mandatory handling in the fee schedule, which is surprising, but perhaps true. I believe @Emir landed there about a year ago and chose the wrong fuel supplier and got slapped with a “less than 1000l” additional fee, so do your research. EPKP is not convenient in terms of getting into town (basically taxi only, and probably a 30 minute ride or so); EPKK is as you would expect from a normal, fairly busy commercial airport – bus, train, taxi, the whole nine yards.
I live in Kraków, so if you need any help or assistance (with either location) feel free to reach out, I will be more than happy to help.
LHBP Ferihegy is as unfriendly for SEP GA as it gets. There’s a loophole that might get you in without handling, but even then expect to pay 150 EUR+. If it doesn’t work, expect another 100-200 EUR for handling. LHTL Tököl will be much cheaper, it’s GA friendly, but day VFR only and there are no really convenient transportation options to the city centre. @C210_flyer will surely know more.
