jfw wrote:
I am puzzled, within EU there should be no customs as there is liberty of transport of goods & persons.
Only border control is possible when not in Schengen or did I miss something ?
I know that we’ve mentioned this several times here but it seems useful to repeate:
- EU equals freedom of movement for goods
- Schengen equals freedom of movement for people
Croatia is in EU but not part of Schengen which means when entering from e.g. Slovenia (which is EU and Schengen) you will be checked by immigration but there will be no customs. Switzerland in not in EU but is part of Schengen which means when entering from e.g. Austria (which is EU and Schengen) you won’t be checked by immigration but customs check is mandatory. You can figure out all other combinations.
All you can really do is read the AIP and NOTAMs and do what is said there. And the challenge in France is that it varies by airport.
Another challenge in France is that the phone numbers in the AIP are quite often incorrect or not answered.
Emir wrote:
I know that we’ve mentioned this several times here but it seems useful to repeate:
- EU equals freedom of movement for goods
- Schengen equals freedom of movement for people
Well Emir, I might not have worded correctly but we are aligned. Hence why should there be customs (douane) when coming from the UK (or any EU country) ? There should be only border control by the police to check your identity (police des frontières), not the goods you are carrying.
That’s true for most countries for the airport admin. That’s because most airports are not run to accept aircraft. They are employment centres – especially the ones funded by local taxpayer e.g. most French ones funded by their local Chamber of Commerce. Look at Carcassonne for example – it took weeks of phoning to establish contact. I think a lot of these low-traffic-volume places remain open because X local jobs depend on them.
The numbers which usually do work are those of the handling agents, who have a financial incentive to be contactable. At least, even if you don’t want to use a handler, and if you need to make a phone call (e.g. due to urgency) the number to call is that of the handler.
Hence why should there be customs (douane) when coming from the UK (or any EU country) ? There should be only border control by the police to check your identity (police des frontières), not the goods you are carrying.
Yes that’s correct.
The issue is that most European countries don’t separate the two functions and historically the term used in international aviation is simply “Customs”.
Some previous threads are here here and there was another one which I can’t find now which talks about many German and Italian non-Customs airports having an Immigration function available on a several-hours’ PNR (very very few people knew about that and it opens up a lot of airports there for UK flights).
AFAIK no French airport separates the two. In Europe it happens only in Germany and Italy.
Also usually it is the same people doing the job. That’s true for the UK for sure. Yesterday at LFAT there were about 15 of them, with DOUANE (Customs) on their jackets, yet they were checking passports for everybody, but not checking luggage!
jfw wrote:
Well Emir, I might not have worded correctly but we are aligned. Hence why should there be customs (douane) when coming from the UK (or any EU country) ? There should be only border control by the police to check your identity (police des frontières), not the goods you are carrying.
Your’re right but the explanation is in Peter’s post. What’s more strange is when you get customs check when flying within one country which happens to me in Bari when coming from Palermo.
The Douanes were checking French arrivals too at LFAT yesterday.
You don’t argue with a policeman with a 9mm, which is the police in nearly all of Europe.
Could someone shine a light on the following?
A Dutch pilot has been ordered to fly back after landing at Chambery LFLB yesterday, because he did not file a “PREAVIS DE VOL DOUANE”.
He flew there from Rotterdam EHRD, which is Schengen.
He was told that entire France is 24HR PPR.
I can’t find any reference in the NOTAM or AIP. Am I missing something?
Some more details he posted (In French, can’t read it)…
Bonjour,
Pour déposer votre préavis , vous devez utiliser le document ci-joint “PREAVIS DE VOL DOUANE” prévu à cet effet, en heures locales, noms des aéroports en clair et non codé, avec le nombre de passagers et les éventuelles marchandises à déclarer.
Dans un souci de bonne gestion des préavis et de traçabilité, une uniformité des préavis de vol est demandée.
Ce préavis de Douane sera immédiatement enregistré et envoyé aux brigades de Douanes concernées.
De même pour les modifications de voyage, il vous suffit de nous envoyer le document rectifié sous la même forme.
J’attends votre nouveau préavis pour le transmettre et l’archiver
Cordialement
(PS : noter en objet : aéroport d’arrivée . date d’arrivée . immatriculation de l’avion . pays de provenance )
A common problem these days. A couple of other threads around here.
Looks like until end if May, the problem is with French airports which do have customs, but only by prior notice. These want such prior notice, even if the flight does not require customs!
To solve, either give them the requested PN, or fly internationally only via airports without customs at all.
And no, this 24-hour rule has not been published anywhere, at least not where pilots look.
Hallo,
To communicate your announcement, you must use the attached document “PREAVIS DE VOL DOUANE” created for this purpose, mentioning local times, names of airports in full not their codes, number of passengers, and goods to be declared if any.
Out of concern for good management and for traceability, uniformity of these announcements is requested.
This announcement will be immediately registered and forwarded to the concerned “Douanes” brigade.
Equally, for changes to your trip, you can just send us the corrected document in the same presentation.
I am expecting your new announcement, it will be forwarded and archived.
Kind regards,
PS mark in the “subject”: airport of arrival – date of arrival – aircraft registration – country of departure
PS I used “announcement” to translate “pré-avis” but really correct would have been “pre-announcement”
PS the original PS request mentioning such and such in the “objet” – I hope and trust this corresponds to English “subject”
