complex-pilot wrote:
Cessna TTX comes second to the fastest civilian 4 seater piston aircraft, the Mooney Acclaim type S
Marketing hype is not real-world. The Cirrus SR22T and Cessna TTX and Mooney Acclaim have the same TSIO Continental 550 but different horsepower ratings and compression ratios. The Mooney is 280hp, the Cirrus 315hp and the TTX 310hp . The Mooney and TTX are 3300lbs gross and 1000lb useful…the Cirrus 3600 lbs gross and 1300lbs useful.
There is no such thing as the Mooney does 245ktas, the TTX 235ktas and the CIrrus 215ktas when their engine and gross weight specs are this close together. Sans the marekting hype all three are likely in the 220ktas range for MAX cruise at what altitude? (something no one flys all the time anyway).
The other more important specs are vastly different. Namley the anemic useful load for the TTX and Mooney….the lack of BRS for these two planes…and the more cramped cabins versus the Cirrus. All three are between $750k to $800k dependent on options. (Note. the Mooney sells about 3 per quarter, the TTX 2 per quarter, the Cirrus 45 per quarter).
USFlyer wrote:
The other more important specs are vastly different. Namley the anemic useful load for the TTX and Mooney….the lack of BRS for these two planes…and the more cramped cabins versus the Cirrus. All three are all around $750k to $800k dependent on options. (Note. the Mooney sells about 3 per quarter, the TTX 2 per quarter, the Cirrus 45 per quarter).
You raise a good point. Why would you buy these vs a good used Mirage. Pressurised FIKI and FL250…..
Anyway back on subject they are all good aircraft. What is with the showing off?
USFlyer wrote:
There is no such thing as the Mooney does 245ktas, the TTX 235ktas and the CIrrus 215ktas when their engine and gross weight specs are this close together.
Oh, ok, so all airplanes with the same engine should yield the same speeds? Hmm. Let’s see. The PA28-180, the Mooney M20C and the Cessna 177 all have the O360 with 180 hp. Do they have the same cruise speeds? Hardly. Of those 3, the PA28-180 is probably the best load carrier but it flies some 110 KTAS, the 177 some 120-125 and the M20C 140-150ktas. Honorable mention: The AA5B Tiger, which reaches 140 kts as well with the same engine and fixed gear.
There are ample pilot reports available for both the TTX and the Acclaim as well as the SR22 which confirm these speeds. While you are right that there is a lot of marketing bullshit around, flown by specs these planes will do what the POH sais they will do. that not many people fly them this balls to the walls is a totally different issue.
USFlyer wrote:
Note. the Mooney sells about 3 per quarter, the TTX 2 per quarter, the Cirrus 45 per quarter).
Actually, 10 per year was the production target at Mooney and it was achieved.
You have one point however: The BRS of the Cirrus has been a total game changer.
JasonC wrote:
You raise a good point. Why would you buy these vs a good used Mirage. Pressurised FIKI and FL250…..
Because the running costs of a Mirage is quite a bit higher?
Buying airplanes for most people will end up being an emotional decision much more than fact and mission based no matter what we care to pretend. And in the case of high performance travel planes, lots of people look at all sorts of airplanes only to end up buying that Cirrus, because the wife is more comfy with that shute. And, btw, the pilot/owner as well.
All those planes are highly capable. All those planes appeal to different people. Yet, when it comes to actually lay down the money for a brand new plane, a lot of folks will end up choosing the CAPS. IMHO the lack of it is what has killed off the Columbia / Corvalis.
There is one more issue. Mooney in comparison to the Corvalis has a pretty loyal user base and I presume that most of the newly sold Acclaims go to people who step up from previously owned Mooneys. The Corvalis never had that. It is a new kid on the block, the same as Cirrus was, but Cirrus did a much better marketing job as well as, in the end, a better all round product. And it has the all important CAPS. For their market, it is the killer argument which excludes most other single engine airplanes.
For that reason, while I am happy that Mooney now turns out the M20U and V, they will sell to the loyal crowd but not to people out to buy “that fast family van”. It’s a bit like that couple which walks around the used car pond with the male looking at different attractive spots cars or big SUV’s and at the end drive out in the Prius because the wife put her foot down. The moment “reason” kicks in, CAPS will win every time.
Hmmm… may be the real question is how much bang for the bucks. I got a pressurized turbo prop with full de-ice and glass cockpit that gives me always 200 KTAS, lands on the smallest gras strips and took me 2 times over the Atlantic for < 500K Euros. You?;)
You are doing yourself a big disservice. You keep stating things as facts that are clearly wrong. You get the MTOW wrong for the Columbia/Cessna 400/TTx. You seem to believe the only factors affecting max cruise are speed and weight. And almost everything you write seems to be founded on the monotheistic belief that thou shalt have no other gods before Cirrus, when it obvious that the best aircraft depends on mission and personal preference, even including the BRS.
Why should anyone believe anything you write? Why should I believe what you say about cramped cabins and useful load?
You may well be right, but Increasingly lack credibility. I rarely write anying about people, mostly about aircraft; but it has to be said.
You clearly have a lot to contribute. But most people are here are giving or looking for advice and information, not advocacy.
Out of pure curiosity, what does the Silver Eagle cruise at 5,000’ and say 10,000’ in terms of TAS and fuel flow ?
N210FK_C10T wrote:
Hmmm… may be the real question is how much bang for the bucks. I got a pressurized turbo prop with full de-ice and glass cockpit that gives me always 200 KTAS, lands on the smallest gras strips and took me 2 times over the Atlantic for < 500K Euros. You?;)
That’s another discussion.
The main topic here is SEP: Single Engine Piston, clearly your P210 is no longer in that category.
ps: >500K€ is very cheap for a Silver Eagle 
I jumped in because someone asked about the Silver Eagle.
It actually delivers 200 KTAS on all levels. The higher the lower the fuel flow (27 GPH @ FL120, 22 GPH @ FL200). At lower altitudes the limit is the IAS redline so I can’t use full power here.
