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NDB A RWY 13 Dieppe LFAB

You don’t have to go missed, if you mean in the procedure terms. If you have good weather just do as you do in VFR. If not you can break off at any time down to circling minima and do what you need to do to get the parameters (as listed in the AIP) and then join the downwind for that runway, ie there is no need to climb back up as you would with the MAP.

France

ATS has been gone from Dieppe for a while now, and since the IAP is published, and not NOTAMed unavailable, you could fly it today, if you wanted.

This useful :"EuroGA discussion ":https://www.euroga.org/forums/flying/10954-france-straight-in-ifr-joins-prohibited-a-vfr-circuit-is-mandatory-if-tower-is-unmanned?page=1 reminded us that if you are doing an (unmanned) procedure, like Dieppe, you MUST do a visual inspection first I.e. Go ‘Missed’ on first approach.

Last Edited by Peter_G at 18 Jan 10:32
Rochester, UK, United Kingdom

Yes France has plan to remove all NDB (ENR & IAP) or stop servicing them in 2030, remove all AD VOR, removed 50% of “AFIS ILS”, convert everything to RNP/RNAV, they plan to keep half of ENR VOR (you should receive at least one at 3kft agl) and to have “backup network” with Radar/ILS/DME

https://coceta.org/DGAC/DNSA-strategie_environnementale.pdf

Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Jan 20:58
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Thanks. The replies make sense. All very interesting comments! More than I expected for quite a small airport. But the airport scene and with it the instrument landscape is changing quickly. If I understand well from Ibra’s link, all conventional navigation stations will be decommissioned by 2030 besides few for emergency use.

Wouldn’t it be nice if we had a facility like that in the UK

Indeed, they are mushrooming faster than magnetic variations
You can’t even “let down” on the open sea without hitting one !

Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Jan 18:28
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

It might have something to do with people sticking wind turbines everywhere these days.

France

Thanks for the figure, I bet NDB costs them 10 times more

It has to be flown (each IAF plus the MAP) by a DGAC approved outfit at least once a year

That looks like a lot, maybe as it’s flown by non-GPS aircrafts with INS/IRU for RNP APCH?

I can’t see that restriction on equipment = EGNOS like say RNP13 at LFAT

I had the impression for flight inspections (after first validation),
- ILS is 6-12mths depending on accuracy specs and operational coverage once in 3 years
- VOR every 3 years or 5 years depending if it’s VOR or DVOR
- RNP non-GPS with legacy LNAV & BaroVNAV once in 5 years
- RNP GPS+SBAS and LPV never (approach is self checked on-the-fly 2nm before FAF)

In GPS + SBAS, one only need to check his plates specs matches the database code, what do you get from the annual flight?

Obstacle surveys happens at every trigger NOTAMS or once in 3 years, but one reason why LPV needs regular updates was highlighted by NCYankee in another post (changes in it’s FAS coding data block)

Obviously, when I talked to a flight calibration engineer from a famous UK outfit, he mentioned continents drifting 10cm per year, so they do become material after 5 years !

https://www.icao.int/Meetings/webinar-series/Documents/Day2-2%20Technologies%20and%20methods%20Frances%20uses%20for%20NAVAIDS%20FI%20and%20FP%20validation.pdf

Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Jan 16:02
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

The cost of keeping up an RNP approach ranges between €3000 – €6000 a year. It has to be flown (each IAF plus the MAP) by a DGAC approved outfit at least once a year and NOTAMs, administration and any AIP changes have to be made. But I don’t know the actual breakdown of the costs so don’t know where all that money goes. Dieppe may of.course have to do a bit more as the NDB, IAP is still there and valid, so that will need checking too.

France

And why not? France does not strictly require ATS for instrument approaches, so the loss of ATS should not be a reason to drop the IAP.

Yes no need for ATS and GA can still fly it but they still have some small running costs to absorbe and maintain it, mostly obstacle surveys every 3 years? ( @gallois may know how this works as LFFK has a similar RNP with no ATS and CTL minima only, residents users only)

Last Edited by Ibra at 17 Jan 14:33
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
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