RNAV retrofit (and regulations mandating loading everything from a database)

You are entering a minefield of half truth, misunderstanding and overly restricted interpretation of regulation.

Properly installed I had my KLN89b approved for BRNAV, flight in MNPS airspace and NP approaches, the paperwork required was a flight manual amendment.

The POH supplement says “GPS NOT APPROVED FOR NAV AS PRIMARY SOURCE” and “USE OF GPS APPROACH MODE IS PROHIBITED”.

That is standard Socata “Gallic shrug” procedure – deliver an IFR aircraft with no legal means of navigation in the European IFR system Same as delivering a £200k aircraft with a fuel totaliser which reads about 30% off because they put the transducer in the wrong place, and were fully aware of it.

If you want to be legal then somehow you need to obtain a new AFMS and then you can remove those placards. @Jesse might know the procedure for an EASA-reg plane. The N-reg one is here and is pretty close to impossible to do for a Europe-based pilot nowadays.

Whether you care is another matter. My opinion is that the whole circus can hear you asking for the RNAV XX approach on the radio so if somebody doesn’t like you, and knows your plane, they could report you. I have never heard of any enforcement though, or insurance issues (not that one would normally hear of the latter, of course). IMHO the majority of the thousands of GNS430 boxes which were installed around the UK since c. 2000 were done with no AFMS so cannot be legally used for IFR other than UK’s informal IFR in Class G. The way I used to get around this was by asking for the NDB/DME approach and fly it using the GPS; in the case of EGKA there was no difference in MDA anyway.

I suspect the KLN90B is like the KLN94 i.e. it’s database contains no RNAV SIDs/STARs but bizzarely it does contain the individual waypoints. So you can load the procedure manually, one waypoint at a time. This is not legal, however.

What about WAAS, don’t we need a WAAS GPS to perform RNAV/GNSS/GPS approaches?

No. You need a “W” GPS only for LPV, or the +V “advisory glideslope”. The KLN90B and KLN94 and KLN89 etc can fly the standard GPS approaches i.e. ones which give you lateral guidance only.

Properly installed I had my KLN89b approved for BRNAV, flight in MNPS airspace and NP approaches, the paperwork required was a flight manual amendment.

Exactly.

Peter wrote:

If you want to be legal then somehow you need to obtain a new AFMS and then you can remove those placards.

What is required of the AFMS? We have an aircraft with a factory installed G1000 (without SBAS). The POH includes a supplement which certifies that the installation satisfies all requirements (TGL-10 etc.) for BRNAV, PRNAV and LNAV approaches, but has no information about the actual use of the G1000 system for navigation. Section 4 of the POH essentially refers to the Garmin documentation but does mention the use of SUSP for missed approaches.

If we want to get PRNAV and LNAV APCH certification, is this enough or do we have to write our own AFMS and get it approved?

What is required of the AFMS?

Have a look at the KLN94 link I posted.

The POH includes a supplement which certifies that the installation satisfies all requirements (TGL-10 etc.) for BRNAV, PRNAV and LNAV approaches

It sounds like you already have what you need. An AFMS is a POH supplement.

I was expecting that things became easier since then…..

They have under EASA, in some areas. Originally any GPS approach approval was a Major mod (probably because of the AFMS, which is also a Major mod under FAA), which was one reason why nobody bothered with it on most IFR GPS installations over the last 15 years A few years ago a small number of people managed to sneak all this RNAV/PRNAV stuff under the wire but then EASA got organised and killed it.

The FAA offers an easy way of doing it on their own turf, using the Field Approval system. But this has been shafted for European based N-regs, because the FAA dept responsible for Europe is the NY IFU and they are just sitting there and blowing US taxpayer money doing nothing useful and spreading FUD (like telling me a Sandel EHSI is “EFIS” and thus needs an STC). About 10 years ago one pilot managed to sneak a PRNAV approval for his 421C under the wire (by submerging the FAA under paperwork showing how great his plane is and what qualifications he has) but since then that route has been closed. I have done 2 field approvals myself, with the help of US based pilots who presented the application to their local FSDO for me, but while this is an obvious business opportunity I am not aware of anyone who does it currently. I possibly have a contact left who might do it for upwards of $1000.

The easy route to getting this 100% legit is to install under an STC, and Garmin own the universe there, with FAA and later EASA AML STCs which come with the AFMS etc. This gives Garmin a massive advantage outside the USA. We have had many threads here on this e.g. here but AFAIK for EASA-reg you have to install a GTN box to get this.

If ever we decide to retrofit, what nice and “cheap” GPS that goes with the KI525A would you recommend?

Any GPS can drive a KI525 which is a purely analog HSI.

If you want everything legit for Europe then a GTN650 will be the cheapest way, AFAIK.

There is a massive “PRNAV” thread here on EuroGA.

Tom

I would advise you to try the Garmin simulator that is avalable to see what unit most suits your needs, the GTN650 is a bit small in the display size as a stand allows unit ( but perfectly usable ) the GTN750 screen size is much clearer but uses a lot of panel space.