No because under EASA the Examiner has to have the privilege to be PIC on the class/type. It was this that stopped CAA examiners jump seat testing IRs for military pilots on types such as Tristar, C130 etc
Got it, thanks !
Sebastian_H wrote in post #22:
It’s strange that that restriction is not found under the applicable FCL.740.A paragraph.
Alpha_Floor wrote in post #23:
Well that’s just what that particular AMC says.
The restriction became a rule in point 4 of FCL.035 (crediting of flight time etc) on 12 Jan 2021.
Ibra wrote:
SEP revalidation is surely not DTO/ATO scope
Training done with an instructor in a microlight or annex I aeroplane/TMG can be credited only when the aeroplane has been evaluated and authorised for use in a DTO or ATO.
Ibra wrote:
That was my understanding you have to be rated PIC for the aircraft to instruct on it, that surely means because an instrictor has to log PIC?
FCL.915(b)(4)
Applicants for the issue of or holders of an instructor
certificate with privileges to conduct flight instruction in an
aircraft shall: … be entitled to act as PIC in the aircraft during
such flight instruction.
Basic Regulation, Annex IV (essential requirements for aircrew)
1.9.2, final para:
Flight instructors conducting training in aircraft must also be
entitled to act as pilot in command on the aircraft for which
instruction is being given, except for training on new aircraft types.
(Emphasis added).
To do the typical 1h SEP revalidation (not renewal) with an owner in most LAA PtF types (load are Annex I) one still need to have the aircraft evaluated & authorised by an ATO/DTO? how does one get authorisation? same as adding aircraft to the list for IR or PPL? Does it need to be flown by someone in DTO/ATO?
I am sure dual training is possible, there is the LAA coaches scheme who can help one getting dual time into vintage types outside DTO/ATO, but probably any “dual credit time” will not be given?
Maybe someone need to take a vintage Nord Aviation aircraft and ask at Oxford Academy to get him a SEP revalidation in the NC858S 
How does this work inside BGA for SEP & TMG operations?
The 1 hour instructional flight does not need to be done under a DTO approval, and neither does SEP renewal training less than 3 years expired, and CAA have confirmed they have no requirement for UK non Part 21 aircraft to brought into a DTO for this training
MattL is quite right. Point 4 to FCL.035 entered into force on 12 Jan 2021 after the transition period ended so no article 71 exemption is required. CAP2023A00, p 65.
The German LBA has made their position clear on this. Their view is that if an instructor is providing instruction, regardless of context, they are PIC. If they just happen to be along for the ride that’s fine as well, but in that case the time flown does not count as training for any license, rating differences training or whatever.
This is based on the conclusion that there are only two categories of people possible on board, crew and passengers. Someone providing instruction (or conducting an examination) is thereby part of the flight crew, as they are concerned with the conduct of the flight. The person instructing is responsible for the safety of the flight, and therefore PIC. The other person logs dual time, which counts towards SEP revalidation as well (up to 6 hours).
In the view of the LBA this also extends to non-FCL-mandated instruction such as voluntary training or club checkouts. Of course this can only be mandatory for German licenses, but I wanted to add my authority’s opinion.
The document stating all this is attached, but it is German only.NfL_2_330_17_BMVI_pdf
To be fair though, this phrase:
Piloten, die in einem Flug als Lehrberechtigte oder Prüfer eingesetzt waren, können
Flugzeiten nur dann geltend machen, wenn sie auch in der Rolle des verantwortlichen
Piloten (PIC) tätig waren
clearly says that other constellations are possible.
That is true, but this only says that an instructor or examiner isn’t automatically PIC just because they are present in the aircraft. The complementary statement is the following one regarding the logging of dual time:
Flugzeit mit Lehrberechtigtem oder Prüfer (dual)
Flugzeiten im Flugbuch werden als ‚dual‘ ausgewiesen, wenn es sich um
1. einen Ausbildungsflug mit Lehrberechtigtem zum Erwerb einer Lizenz oder
Berechtigung
2. eine Auffrischungsschulung, einen Schulungsflug, eine Unterschiedsschulung, einen
Vorab-Testflug oder eine Kompetenzbeurteilung mit Lehrberechtigtem gem. Teil-FCL
3. einen Prüfungsflug mit Prüfer zum Erwerb, zur Verlängerung oder Erneuerung einer
Lizenz oder Berechtigung (praktische Prüfung, Befähigungsüberprüfung oder
Kompetenzbeurteilung)
handelt.
Darüber hinaus handelt es sich um „Dual-Zeit“, wenn mit einer Person in ihrer Funktion als
Lehrberechtigter oder Prüfer ein sonstiger (Übungs-)Flug (z.B. interner Vereins-Checkflug,
Standardisierungsflug, Vertrautmachen, „Checkflug“ auf Halteranordnung etc.)
vorgenommen wird. Hierbei ist der Lehrberechtigte oder der Prüfer PIC.
Flight time with an instructor or examiner
Flight time has to be entered as “dual” into the pilot’s logbook if the flight is
1. a training flight with an instructor for the issue, revalidation or renewal of a license or rating
2. Refresher training, an instructional flight, a differences training, a pre-entry assessment or an assessment of competence with an instructor according part FCL
3. A check flight with an examiner for the issue, revalidation or renewal for a license or rating (skill test, assessment of competence, etc.)
Additionally, dual time is also to be logged if an instructor or examiner is acting in their role during any other training flight (including internal club checkouts, standardisation flights, familiarisation flights, “checks” upon operator’s request). The instructor is PIC during these flights.
