172driver wrote:
WRT renter’s insurance, agree with @Silvaire, however not so sure WRT the courtesy car. While I haven’t really researched it, the fact is that showing my insurance card (for one of my US-registered vehicles) at a rental counter removes the necessity of buying insurance, as my insurance – and that’s me as a person, not one of my cars – carries the insurance. It seems to a hybrid model, a bit like in France.
That’s true for ‘hull’ coverage on the rental car, but liability is legally required to be covered by the rental company. What you are/are not buying is coverage for damage to the car itself, and for rental cars (although not trucks I found) it’s your choice in the US regardless of what your own cars policy may or may not cover.
I assumed that the issue with insurance on an FBO courtesy car was centered on legally required liability coverage with a foreign driver’s license, ‘hull’ coverage didnt occur to me as the main issue. I don’t carry that on on the vehicles I own, so my exposure would be little different when driving the Courtesy Car… maybe better if the FBO had it fully insured. I believe anyway that the owner’s policy would cover a foreign licensed driver at the same level as any other driver regardless of coverage details.
Insurance etc.
Thanks for the replies chaps. I’m sorry to have drifted the thread away from its original purpose. Maybe I can be permitted one response:
Regarding courtesy cars, my point is that you typically have no way to verify that a car is insured (and FBO’s have a practiced look of deep offence if you mention it, partly because they don’t know that your personal car insurance is of no value out there.) in any case, having arrived at some remote airstrip you’re in a poor position to quibble about it. So you drive the car – carefully.
UK car insurance absolutely does not cover US driving and having asked my company’s brokers at almost every renewal I’m told no such policy I’d possible. BTW the rental insurance referred to is offered in UK is to remove the need for expensive supplementary insurance on rental cars – it absolutely does not apply to loan cars, based on my personal enquiries with the companies concerned.
Agreed courtesy cars are likely to carry some minimal insurance but even this is likely to favour the owner, not the driver. In any case, the limits for 3rd party claims required by the particular state might be woefully low, say $10,000. That’s why you are advised to buy sli (Supplimentary liability) on a hertz car in California, typically $1m or more. Otherwise, avoid driving near schools or puppy farms!
In the case of aircraft renters insurance I agree I larded it up a bit with the $1m hull value. But even a 172 is worth $90,000 and the renters premium is nowhere near this. So what happens if the FBO has not paid his premium, voided it on some infringement or is otherwise not covered. Will Avopmecoa cover you anyway, including the full amount of hull value and 3rd party claims? I don’t know and the one single case I’m aware of the plane was insured and they covered the deductible and didn’t quibble about the address used. Maybe it’s never been tested with an uninsured plane.
The problem is in my direct experience that it can be quite hard to get an FBO to show you proof of insurance and you’re in a weak negotiating position having just crossed an ocean to fly this specific plane. (Enquiries about issues like this in advance of departure often lead to fairly rapid end of communication!) so it’s another rock and hard place.
So I go back to my original position: if you are going to rent or borrow in the US, be aware that it’s a grown up country where you are responsible for the consequences of your own actions and not all risks are indemnifiable.
Thanks All. Due to time constraints from myself and the instructor I ended up only being able to do one VFR flight, from NYC to Baltimore (then took train to DC) (Instructor had to fly back immediately upon arrival (at 8:30 am!) so went back with empty plane).
But it was a nice flight and next time will go there with the BFR already done (in the UK), and I think I already got the radio so that checkout is non issue.
Aveling wrote:
UK car insurance absolutely does not cover US driving and having asked my company’s brokers at almost every renewal I’m told no such policy I’d possible.
Sorry, incorrect. Check out http://insurance4carhire.com/. They are a specialty insurers for that (I have no interest in them, other than having used them in the past).
Aveling wrote:
The problem is in my direct experience that it can be quite hard to get an FBO to show you proof of insurance
Also incorrect (at least in CA). Proof of insurance has to be carried in the car (a legal requirement in CA), so a quick look in the glove compartment of a loaner should do. In case of rental, the rental contract suffices.
