AFAIK, this has started with Swiss/French ATC who are near Alps complaining about aircraft filing flight plans for wind & altitude optimisation…elsewhere no one is likely to care about about YoYo and L-legs, especially when it comes to filing flight plan for airspace restrictions
ATC tend to understand airspace restrictions but they may not understand why someone is asking to fly to France toward SW winds near Geneva on his way from Germany to Italy…
That is the opposite of what they say. They say it is about predictability and flight plan adherence, so if you actually fly what you file, it is fine.
The RAD is the Eurocontrol equivalent of tax law…a constant flight between the legislator and inventive people coming up with loopholes
Examples:
Cobalt wrote:
Eurocontrol blocks YoYo flight plans —> let’s see what pilots come up with next.
We already know what is next – Eurocontrol is implementing Free Route Airspace (FRA) in the UIR, so in the future you should be able to fly as you like it…
A lot of my flights across parts of Europe involve level changes which will conflict with this stupid rule. I hope that the AR offers that qualifier as a fixed config.
Peter wrote:
Probably notA lot of my flights across parts of Europe involve level changes which will conflict with this stupid rule. I hope that the AR offers that qualifier as a fixed config.
Well, there are limitations! :)
I think you have to go through certain entry and exit point for the countries where the FRA is done, in others (France, Spain) – you have to go through the same points on airways as you were before during the initial phases of implementation.
I think you have to go through certain entry and exit point for the countries where the FRA is done, in others (France, Spain) – you have to go through the same points on airways as you were before during the initial phases of implementation.
Slovenia kind of implemented FRA but there are many limitations hard to understand and routing became even more complicated than before unlike Austria and Hungary that implemented real FRA.
So what are pilots supposed to do? autorouter only presents yoyo routings for my planned flight. I understand that one cannot just just use one of the mentioned qualifiers, as it may cause problems down the road….
Presumably, if it validates, it is ok to file.
So what are pilots supposed to do?
Fly VFR as you can’t find a way around it?
Fly IFR using those hacks and risk a follow up
I went for the latter, no one has ever complained yet (definetly not an issue for the typical ATC I am talking about, “ne t’en fait pas, tant que ça valid, c’est bon pour nous”), I post here if I ever heard something on this
I have yet to talk to an ATC who go into all up/down altitude and heading left/right in FPL? they usually ask me what level or route I wanted (reply: DCT to VOR 100nm away) and I never ever loaded the whole filed FPL in my navigator, except during test, mainly SID plus one or two points en-route and IAF…it could be useful for lost comms, it’s a very rare event though and only make more sense to do it when that actually happens
Maybe above FL140 things are way more constrained & monitored and one can get in serious troubles? but I have not flown above that to be honest..also the relaxed ATC attitude is probably specific to French Airway/LTA ATC, they only care about validation not what’s actually filed?
In any case, one can fly those YoY profiles while avoiding all restrictions but I really doubt it as “fly as filed” is unheard of, it’s rare like hens teeth !
boscomantico wrote:
So what are pilots supposed to do? autorouter only presents yoyo routings for my planned flight. I understand that one cannot just just use one of the mentioned qualifiers, as it may cause problems down the road….
@boscomantico, either VFR or relax the extra limitations on route (higher ALT etc) or trying to hack the route manually?
While preparing for my IR theory exams and playing with AR I’ve found that sometimes it is not the most efficient system and you could find better route yourself.
What is the route you are planning?
