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Another question about the Eurocontrol IFPS FP validation

Hi!

Not sure if it was asked before, but got another one re: IFPS.

I’ve tried to validate a flight plan EGTR-LFBI (EGTR N0106F090 DET L6 DVR L10 RINTI DCT OTGUV DCT ING DCT ING200010 DCT ING200020 DCT ING200029 DCT ING200038 DCT ING200047 DCT ING200056 DCT DPE H20 LGL J55 GINON LFBI ), which was following a typical route over the channel, and validating a few months ago. Got the following error:
(R)PROF205: RS: TRAFFIC VIA EGTTFIR IS OFF MANDATORY ROUTE REF:[EGLF1022B] SITET

Reason for going through DVR is for SEP gliding distance (PA28). What would be the hack that would create a Flight Plan that:
1. Validates in IFPS and
2. Follows the route DVR-RINTI (gliding distance).

Thanks a lot!

EGTR

arj1 wrote:

Reason for going through DVR is for SEP gliding distance (PA28). What would be the hack that would create a Flight Plan that:
1. Validates in IFPS and
2. Follows the route DVR-RINTI (gliding distance).

Thanks a lot!

Try calling the Eurocontrol help desk.

ESKC (Uppsala/Sundbro), Sweden

Try dropping the UK end of the route below CAS.

Unfortunately that will cause London Control to not want to handle you, but to be honest EGTR is just N of London and you will probably never actually get a great route from there to France, in a SEP.

If using the Autorouter, have you tried generating a fresh route?

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

Peter wrote:

Try dropping the UK end of the route below CAS.

If using the Autorouter, have you tried generating a fresh route?

Will try to drop the route.
I’ve tried a fresh route and it’s always routed through SITET, so over water…

EGTR

Unfortunately there isn’t much of a hack possible given the way the restriction is coded:

Unless you change your departure or arrival airport to fall outside the mentioned airport groups, you will need to route via SITET.

Try e-mailling [email protected] to see whether they can change the restriction. Maybe something that it would be compulsory via SITET only above a certain FL.

They are normally quite responsive, I got them to put in this RAD entry over the summer as I made the point that for SEPs one shouldn’t be forced to route via COA-LAM with an SEP as it would significantly increase the amount of travel over water. Given that there is not much traffic conflict at the lower levels for London TMA outbounds, they were happy to turn that around within 24 hours and put in a temporary amendment which was then adopted as permanent amendment in the next AIRAC cycle.

EGTF, EGLK, United Kingdom

Ignoring UK restrictions, RINTI seems like a dead end on UK=>France leg if going sout-west of Paris?
You will always get pulled to XIDIL or SITET, anything north of these are one way routes !
On the return leg you can surely fly a short channel crossing back via Abbeville ABB VOR NW routes

AIP airway map

The other two alternatives: fly UK IFR/VFR off airways to TUKVI and then generate a valid IFR route afterward just like going from LFAT to LFBI or file along RINTI=>CMB=>ABB dog leg (I am sure they get a direct after takeoff and I doubt people would fly as far as mid-channel when going from Lille/Calais/LeTouquet to Poitiers?)

I tried this in AutoRouter it works:
EGTR N0158F100 OSDIT/N0158F100 IFR DCT TUKVI DCT NETVU DCT SITET A34 LGL J55 LUTIL/N0153F060 DCT ETPIL LFBI

Last Edited by Ibra at 26 Dec 15:12
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom

Finally, remembered to progress this one. Contacted Eurocontrol, described the situation that I’m studying for the IR and trying different routes in Autorouter etc.
And the task was to stay fairly high (FL90) so that the it is enough to glide to a nearest airfield in case on an engine failure. Route is EGTR-LFOP, for example.
Validator (and RADAN spreadsheet) say it needs to go through SITET etc, so outside the glide distance.

@Airborne_Again, Eurocontrol said “SITET/../.. only” and nothing else. So looks like if you want to stay at FL90 in a single and stay within the gliding distance, then you cannot go to LFOB/LFBI. NM people did not elaborate…

EGTR

@arj1, can you explain why you can’t fly Fl 90 to LFBI, assuming your track obeys the semi circular rule. Are you talking about an IFR flight from LFOP to LFBI? In an SEP I would have thought the only section which might be a problem in terms of glide is the section around Paris, but you would be to the west mainly and there are usually quite a few fields you could glide to from 9000ft even on a brick.

France

Lots of routes from the Autorouter, or any other routing tool, validate but cannot be flown on the day. This is completely normal. It is the consequence of most countries that subscribe to Eurocontrol not supplying it with a full set of rules. In some cases openly intentionally, to retain the need for domestic manpower.

Administrator
Shoreham EGKA, United Kingdom

From FL90 over Paris it seems there are plenty of choices (except Villacoublay, see bellow as they will shoot you down, just kidding), Orly would be better and very GA friendly: at least they don’t bill you for emergencies

PS: (this was not me) there was an SR22 from LFPN that declared a MAYDAY last month and landed at Orly after the door did open on takeoff from Toussus (which apparently caused the engine to change it’s sound, scary stuff but closing the door seemed to fix the engine problems, whatever happens on that flight I am glad everybody did the right thing to declare an emergency then land safely, close the door and takeoff again ), this what was posted on FB by the pilot

Last Edited by Ibra at 25 Oct 21:28
Paris/Essex, France/UK, United Kingdom
36 Posts
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