The reason for looking at Flying Neurones is as I explained.
Its a portable system so can be moved to another aircraft whenever the club changes its fleet.
60% of club aircraft in France now have mode S and the Neurones cable can be installed so that all ModeS can give ADSB out for €65 plus tax and 1hr of mechanics time if the aircraft is certified.
The majority of the glider fleet in France has already been fitted with Flarm and glider clubs don’t want the cost of refitting everything with ADSB.
IMO the FFA and the RSA are aware of the uproar there will be if EASA and/or the DGAC mandate ADSB in all aircraft without providing the funding to do it. Remember 8.33 and mode S are still not fully implemented.
@Peter the majority of aircraft flying in France have a transponder, usually mode C or S and they use it. It is the only real way to get transit of CAS, which is then normally granted because they have you on SSR. That is where we differ from the UK according to the posts on here. We also don’t need to turn the transponder off just in case we stray a little into controlled airspace. IMO that’s just madness.
gallois wrote:
Remember 8.33 and mode S are still not fully implemented.
Where is 8.33 not fully implemented? For several years now, there has been a mandate for EASA countries to switch ground stations to 8.33 unless there are technical reasons for not doing so. (Happens with wide-area enroute frequencies with several transmitters.) Sure, there can be exemptions but enough so that you can do without 8.33?
I think you fill find that there are many flying experimentals, old kit builts, and ULM which have not yet switched to 8.33
They may well fly mostly OCAS where 123.5 can be used without changing the radio.
It will happen eventually :)
Sebastian_G wrote:
ADS-B out is the proper solution to this problem.
Gliders with limited battery capacity disagree. Especially if they’re circling the same thermal, where ADS-B is useless and Flarm is proven to work. Yes, I ordered an ADS-B, too, but that “certified” is sure a pain in the wallet and certainly just a cash grab.
Also, isn’t there a limit on how many ADS-B work at the same time because there is a lot of data loss due to multiple devices ‘talking’ at the same time?
Sebastian_G wrote:
ADS-B out is the proper solution to this problem.
Could not agree more. ADS-B out is quite cheap if you have a decent transponder, like the Trig.
I think we need to just bite the bullet and push for ADS-B out.
The challenge will be drones, from what little I know about the work they are doing – they might need a different standard.
What about ADSB in which would add more value. And if we leave it to EASA/NAAs to make it mandatory are they not likely to demand they be certified for EASA aircraft with the additional cost of installation?
FFA and RSA are looking at ways to keep costs down for 600 clubs, allow other air users to continue using existing systems which suit them and still get the desired result.
I’m pretty sure that they would look at other systems if one could be found to do the same, cheaper or better.
Mandating ADS-B out for GA and more commercial (cheaper) options for a true TAS like Lynx9000 based on a low profile phase antenna
Is it ADSB in and out?
What is the cost to buy and install?
Will it allow you to see Flarm emitting gliders and ULM and they to see you?
Can you see this information on the same screen at the same time as you are running SDVFR, SD and FF?
Is it totally portable?
What does it weigh?
If it does all this better and cheaper than the system currently being studied, why don’t the makers of the Lynx9000 get in touch with the FFA and the RSA? After all there is quite a big ready made market for them. 600clubs more than 2000 aircraft just in the FFA alone. The RSA domr 1600 aircraft and many more in the process of being built. Then there are many thousand FFPULM owner/members who would likely be interested in a system which does all that the trials of Flying Neurones are suggesting and all without the need for EASA or DGAC regulation.
And finally are they prepared to make substantial discounts to clubs and groups buying the systems in numbers?
The discounts being offered can be seen on the RSA website.
The hardware to emit ADS-B OUT, with a power level adequate for GA traffic awareness (say 5nm) is the same as anything else transmitting around the 1090MHz band. Parts cost about 100 quid.
Certified kit needs more power and anyway costs more, and is more involved because certification stipulates (quite pointlessly) a WAAS/EGNOS GPS position source, but this is the usual circular-self-funding runaround where there are powerful interests, starting with installers, driving the expensive option.
So underneath all this we have all sorts of enterpreneurs trying to make money out of dubious and unsustainable propositions, while some CAAs are hoping to get bonus points for being “GA friendly” and allowing this other kit to be installed.
Then you need a means to display the ADS-B traffic. That can be uncertified, but for as long as there is no real money in a similarly uncertified ADS-B OUT box, the present situation will continue.
Well that’s what is being studied. I have no involvement in the study but I do have friends in a club who are giving feedback. They have been for about a year. As I said I had a chance to see it work and felt IMO it could be a very useful TAS/TCAS system. If at the end of the study, all is as it seems and we can take advantage of
the good discount, when the club president asks for my opinion, I can see myself saying “yeh why not” or “Oui pourquoi pas” especially as most of us have a tablet running SDVFR to view the traffic and the collision risk. It could certainly help at LFFK when we hold the French gliding championships with 120 or more gliders and I don’t know how many tow planes here for a week or 2.
