Logging of time in a new aircraft type

par wrote:

1. I do have a PPL, and just had a first aerobatic training flight with extra 300. How do I log it if at all? I obviously was not PIC (I did not land, or take off, the instructor did), so should I treat it as SPIC (logging in PIC column), with the instructor signing in the remarks?

You log it as dual command, just like your training flights before you had a PPL.

par wrote:

I flew with C150/152 mostly, and recently decided to give a 182 a go. I was told I have to be “checked out by an instructor”, and after 2 flights, he signed in my logbook, making a record in the back of it.

There are two things:

1. The owner of the plane (and/or the insurer) requires training not required by law before (s)he allows you to use the plane. That is pretty common.
2. The C182 likely had at least a constant-speed (variable pitch) propeller, while your previous C152 didn’t? The SEP class has a few variants (see GM1 FCL.700.a):
   • variable pitch propeller
   • turbo engine
   • EFIS (glass cockpit)
   • pressurised
   • retractable undercarriage
   • tail wheel
   • single-lever power control

You legally need differences training (as per FCL.710.a), by an instructor (in the case of TMG, SEP, SET or MEP variants only, as per FCL.710.c; else an ATO/DTO/AOC holder with approved differences training program) before being PIC on one of these variants, but that’s then good for life (as long as your licence and SEP rating are valid) afterwards (that’s valid for SEP and TMG). And indeed as per FCL.710.(e) “The differences training or the proficiency check in that variant shall be entered in the pilots’ logbook or equivalent record and signed by the instructor or examiner as appropriate.”

For variants in other class or type ratings, one must have flown the variant again within 2 years of the initial training, else the training must be done again OR one must pass a proficiency check.

Note: while SEP variants (relevant here) need differences training, some variants need only familiarisation training (e.g. ).

They have clearly not taught you about PPL privileges and pilot logging in your PPL case. But that is very common.
On that aerobatic flight, it should have been very from the start whether it was an instructional flight (then you would indeed log it as DUAL) oe whether not and you were just a passenger (in which case you would not log anything).

On the 182 checkout, to do it correctly, you would have to make sure that the entry made into your logbook by the instructor clearly says something like “differences training VPP completed” or so.Good news is that on an SEP, this differences training does not expire, so you’re good for life. After that, then in theory, you could step into a 206 (non-turbo) without any more instructor involvement (you would merely have to familiarize yourself with the aircraft). Of course, nobody will rent you a 206, so would have to buy one to be able to just hop into it (if the insurance allows that, which is yet another matter.)

par wrote:

But if two pilots friends fly in the same SEP aircraft (i.e. c182), is there a way for both of them to log PIC time concurrently?

In the UK the only case (AFAIK) is that one pilot has got a medical condition which requires a second person in the cockpit, otherwise – only one of them is PIC.

Very clearly, there can only be one pilot in command. Obvious.

Whether a second qualified pilot on board an SEP can log anything has been the subject of pilot discussions for decades. But the general consensus is NO.

Looking at the logging rules in Part-FCL, which lists all the possible “roles” of pilots, helps with coming to that conclusion. There is no “role” that this second pilot could possibly have. DUAL is not possible (as long as the other pilot is not an FI and acting as such). And “Co-Pilot” is also not possible, as that is a very narrowly defined thing in Part-FCL, not suitable for a “2 PPL pilots on board sharing the tasks” scenario. See?

boscomantico wrote:

Whether a second qualified pilot on board can log anything has been the subject of pilot discussions for decades. But the general consensus is NO.

What confuses people is that under the FAA system, this is possible in some situations. But, as you say, not under EASA.

Yes, I omitted this here to avoid confusion.

par wrote:

is there a way for both of them to log PIC time concurrently?

The regs are pretty clear:

AMC1 FCL.050 Recording of flight time

(b) Logging of time:
(1) PIC flight time:
(i) the holder of a licence may log as PIC time all of the flight time during which he or she is the PIC;
(ii) the applicant for or the holder of a pilot licence may log as PIC time all solo flight time, flight time as SPIC and flight time under supervision provided that such SPIC time and flight time under supervision are countersigned by the instructor;
(iii) the holder of an instructor certificate may log as PIC all flight time during which he or she acts as an instructor in an aircraft;
(iv) the holder of an examiner’s certificate may log as PIC all flight time during which he or she occupies a pilot’s seat and acts as an examiner in an aircraft;
(v) a co-pilot acting as PICUS on an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or as required by operational requirements provided that such PICUS time is countersigned by the PIC;
(vi) if the holder of a licence carries out a number of flights upon the same day returning on each occasion to the same place of departure and the interval between successive flights does not exceed 30 minutes, such series of flights may be recorded as a single entry.
(2) co-pilot flight time: the holder of a pilot licence occupying a pilot seat as co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot flight time on an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft, or the regulations under which the flight is conducted;
(3) cruise relief co-pilot flight time: a cruise relief co-pilot may log all flight time as co-pilot when occupying a pilot’s seat;
(4) instruction time: a summary of all time logged by an applicant for a licence or rating as flight instruction, instrument flight instruction, instrument ground time, etc., may be logged if certified by the appropriately rated or authorised instructor from whom it was received;
(5) PICUS flight time: provided that the method of supervision is acceptable to the competent authority, a co-pilot may log as PIC flight time flown as PICUS when all the duties and functions of PIC on that flight were carried out in such a way that the intervention of the PIC in the interest of safety was not required.

INSTRUCTIONS FOR USE
…
(h) When an aircraft carries two or more pilots as members of the operating crew, one of them shall, before the flight commences, be designated by the operator as the aircraft PIC, according to operational requirements, who may delegate the conduct of the flight to another suitably qualified pilot. All flying carried out as PIC is entered in the logbook as ‘PIC’. A pilot flying as ‘PICUS’ or ‘SPIC’ enters flying time as ‘PIC’ but all such entries are to be certified by the PIC or FI in the ‘Remarks’ column of the logbook.